To visit or not to visit?

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grep
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To visit or not to visit?

Post by grep » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:31 pm

Three universities have invited me to attend open houses. I am still undecided but my interest for these universities is like 70/20/10% spread. I would LOVE to attend all of the open houses but I dont want to feel like I am taking advantage of their generosity involving traveling expenses/etc. So, I guess what I am asking is:

What is typical for the number of open houses people attend (1, 3, 5, ?)
How often do people attend even if they know they PROBABLY will not accept the offer?
Is 10% interest worth their expense?

Please, I already realize that there are others on waiting lists and tight budgets, I am just looking for opinions on this issue and what others are doing, not tirades. Thanks

admissionprof
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by admissionprof » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:38 pm

grep wrote:Three universities have invited me to attend open houses. I am still undecided but my interest for these universities is like 70/20/10% spread. I would LOVE to attend all of the open houses but I dont want to feel like I am taking advantage of their generosity involving traveling expenses/etc. So, I guess what I am asking is:

What is typical for the number of open houses people attend (1, 3, 5, ?)
How often do people attend even if they know they PROBABLY will not accept the offer?
Is 10% interest worth their expense?

Please, I already realize that there are others on waiting lists and tight budgets, I am just looking for opinions on this issue and what others are doing, not tirades. Thanks
Go to all three, as long as the 10% is really 10% and you aren't being "polite". You might hate the 70% place, in which case the other two will move up. If it is truly zero, then you would be taking advantage, but if you really think there's a chance, check it out. And if you really like the 10% place, but decide not to go, talk about how much you liked it on PhysicsGRE.com.....

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by WhoaNonstop » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:39 pm

admissionprof wrote:
grep wrote:Three universities have invited me to attend open houses. I am still undecided but my interest for these universities is like 70/20/10% spread. I would LOVE to attend all of the open houses but I dont want to feel like I am taking advantage of their generosity involving traveling expenses/etc. So, I guess what I am asking is:

What is typical for the number of open houses people attend (1, 3, 5, ?)
How often do people attend even if they know they PROBABLY will not accept the offer?
Is 10% interest worth their expense?

Please, I already realize that there are others on waiting lists and tight budgets, I am just looking for opinions on this issue and what others are doing, not tirades. Thanks
Go to all three, as long as the 10% is really 10% and you aren't being "polite". You might hate the 70% place, in which case the other two will move up. If it is truly zero, then you would be taking advantage, but if you really think there's a chance, check it out. And if you really like the 10% place, but decide not to go, talk about how much you liked it on PhysicsGRE.com.....

Also, if you don't like the 70% place, talk about how much you disliked it on PhysicsGRE.com...

I think three open houses is a good number. You should definitely attend more than one to have some sort of comparison!

-Riley

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grae313
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by grae313 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:27 pm

Thirded.

I visited 5 schools and I don't know how I could have made my decision without a nervous breakdown had I not. Three of them were within an hour's drive of me though, and I probably would have dropped Santa Cruz if I had needed a plane ticket to get there.

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HappyQuark
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by HappyQuark » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:34 pm

This might be the pessimist in me and I might change my tune after visiting a few different schools, but so far as I can tell it's more or less a crapshoot. I don't know that anybody could really sort out all of the possible variables that would make a university a good or bad choice based on a weekend visit.

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twistor
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by twistor » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:45 pm

HappyQuark wrote:This might be the pessimist in me and I might change my tune after visiting a few different schools, but so far as I can tell it's more or less a crapshoot. I don't know that anybody could really sort out all of the possible variables that would make a university a good or bad choice based on a weekend visit.
This might be the pessimist in me and I might change my tune after visiting a few different schools, but so far as I can tell it's more or less a crapshoot. I don't know that anybody could really sort out all of the possible variables that would make a university a good or bad choice based on a weekend visit.
Post Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:34 pm
You can't, of course. The graduate schools know this. Hence the point of the graduate department wining and dining you on your visit.

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grae313
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by grae313 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:02 pm

I of course disagree. It's not about "sorting out variables" as much as it is getting a feel for the department and the people. You'll be getting a chance to sit down with your potential adviser and talk to him/her, often times one on one, as well as their graduate students. Sure, you're not going to come away knowing everything about all the different programs, but you will come away with some facts, and many more impressions and feelings that are all extremely valuable in making this decision. I really believe you can get a sense of where you would feel the most at home based on the people, the department, and the city. Graduate students foster their own little cultures, and people who feel/act similarly are more likely to choose a school where they find like-minded people, and in this way each school can take on its own distinct character.

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HappyQuark
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by HappyQuark » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:35 pm

grae313 wrote:I of course disagree. It's not about "sorting out variables" as much as it is getting a feel for the department and the people. You'll be getting a chance to sit down with your potential adviser and talk to him/her, often times one on one, as well as their graduate students. Sure, you're not going to come away knowing everything about all the different programs, but you will come away with some facts, and many more impressions and feelings that are all extremely valuable in making this decision. I really believe you can get a sense of where you would feel the most at home based on the people, the department, and the city. Graduate students foster their own little cultures, and people who feel/act similarly are more likely to choose a school where they find like-minded people, and in this way each school can take on its own distinct character.
It's been my experience with similar situations that, as twistor pointed out, they will schmooze with you for a weekend and based on that try to sway your decision. Specifically, working for the DoD we constantly interview subcontractors that give their presentation about why they are the best choice, they tell you jokes so that you can see yourself working with them for the next couple years and generally give you the warm fuzzies about moving forward with their company. Then, once the honeymoon period is over, you realize that their project manager is a pain to work with and their employees are painfully inept. On the other hand, sometimes you meet subcontractors that you like and it turns out they are pretty damn good. It seems to me that, in general, you can learn very little useful information from a weekend visit in which the schools primary objective is to convince you how awesome they are. The best you can do is find a place with a history of good research and specifically research that centers around your interests, a culture and environment you can tolerate and then cross your fingers and dive in.

Just for clarification, I'm not suggesting that these open house visits are useless. I'm suggesting that some schools are better at sweet talking prospective students so you have to be very careful about how much you allow your gut feeling to dictate your choices. I think an open house visit ought to play one of the smaller roles in choosing a graduate school.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by WhoaNonstop » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:05 pm

grae313 wrote:Graduate students foster their own little cultures, and people who feel/act similarly are more likely to choose a school where they find like-minded people.
I sure hope I can find a school that has people who like physics. Although, I must say, I am quite sad I will not be visiting Cornell for the pure fact that I would have been an excellent addition to one's flag football team.

I think school visits can be very helpful. However, you must be very careful in the information you receive while visiting and how you should interpret it. I visited a few schools last year myself and you will find that they will all treat you like a king. There is a reason why they invest so much into students visiting. They know if a student visits the campus, there is a much higher chance they will attend there. It doesn't matter what caliber of school this is, it's all very similar. Do not let the overly-friendly atmosphere hinder your ability to make a solid decision.

What I really suggest is that you really pay attention to the professor's you speak to. Pay less attention to what they are saying (although of course that is important) and more attention to how their body language speaks. Are they truly happy that you are sitting in their office? Does it appear that they are interested in you, yourself as a student or are they excited to have a prospective student for themselves in the future? I think in general, you will find that the bigger the department you visit, the less-genuine you will notice it is. Now I'm not saying that every big department is bad and every small department is great, just something I seemed to notice in the schools I've visited.

One of the things everyone should take advantage of when visiting is checking out the surrounding area. Remember, you will have to live in this place for 5+ years. If you hate the surrounding area, you should rethink your decision, even if the school is a top university. One of the schools I visited last year felt like it was in the middle of a ghetto. It was actually quite terrifying (considering I come from rural Nebraska). Consider your other interests besides physics and investigate whether the surrounding area has opportunities to explore these interests. For example, say you like off-road biking; obviously there are schools that will better suit this interest than others. Of course, you don't want to make a decision solely on your interests, but don't get yourself trapped in a place you'll hate, regardless of how much weight a PhD from that school will hold.

-Riley

Kites
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by Kites » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:43 pm

twistor wrote:
HappyQuark wrote:This might be the pessimist in me and I might change my tune after visiting a few different schools, but so far as I can tell it's more or less a crapshoot. I don't know that anybody could really sort out all of the possible variables that would make a university a good or bad choice based on a weekend visit.
This might be the pessimist in me and I might change my tune after visiting a few different schools, but so far as I can tell it's more or less a crapshoot. I don't know that anybody could really sort out all of the possible variables that would make a university a good or bad choice based on a weekend visit.
Post Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:34 pm
You can't, of course. The graduate schools know this. Hence the point of the graduate department wining and dining you on your visit.
QFT

At least they buy dinner. Isn't the cheapest date possible.

vesperlynd
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by vesperlynd » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:12 pm

A classmate last year visited six of the seven schools he got into, even though he knew where he was going (he got a really good financial offer from a good school). He thought it was networking; the rest of us thought it was excessive.

negru
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by negru » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:37 pm

Grad schools are hand in hand with the ets forcing us to take irrelevant tests whose answers are all on Chinese websites, might as well make them pay a little for it

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kubikat
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by kubikat » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:41 am

Everyone in my school has been quite excited about the "free travel" opportunity and advised me to visit as many schools as I can. I don't think, however, I can fake interest well enough, once I know I am not going to accept an offer, so I am only visiting the ones I am really considering.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by WhoaNonstop » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:13 am

kubikat wrote:Everyone in my school has been quite excited about the "free travel" opportunity and advised me to visit as many schools as I can. I don't think, however, I can fake interest well enough, once I know I am not going to accept an offer, so I am only visiting the ones I am really considering.
Yeah, I considered visiting University of Virginia because I'd really like to see the school, plus a really good friend goes there. However, there is such little chance I would attend there. So I declined that offer today and decided I'd just go visit anyways and just have my friend show me around. Sure I could take advantage of the school's "free travel" but it definitely doesn't feel right to do so.

Mmm, dyed my hair bright pink today for my school visits. Can't wait to see the look on William & Mary / Brown professors!

-Riley

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quizivex
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by quizivex » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:26 am

WhoaNonstop wrote:Mmm, dyed my hair bright pink today for my school visits.
Awesome... it'd be really rad if you post some pix of yourself at the visits :D

tapauly
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by tapauly » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:08 pm

I'd agree with the suggestion of going on any visit you think you have a chance of attending. I just finished my first visit, and it went so much better than expected. I came into it with some preconceived ideas of the quality of research done there, and it was eye-opening to see the volume of quality work, the intensity of the environment, and the collaborative work done every year. Now I have to get another down to have something to compare it to.

grep
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by grep » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:21 pm

I took the advise of most of the replies and decided to visit the three universities. Now that I have already been to one open house, I am glad I did this. I learned a lot about the atmosphere and people there that would have been impossible to glean from rankings and forums. Ironically, I think that in my situation, this will cause the decision on which offer to accept even more difficult than it would be if I had not visited any. But, now I know that I am at least making a semi-informed decision.

ashowmega
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by ashowmega » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:48 pm

negru wrote:Grad schools are hand in hand with the ets forcing us to take irrelevant tests whose answers are all on Chinese websites
I have actually heard this to be true from some of my Chinese friends.

negru
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by negru » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:47 pm

The best strategy for the general GRE is to just send a friend at the beginning of a month, have him remember maybe a couple questions and keywords in the texts, then just google these and you'll eventually find a website in chinese with all the answers for the month's pool of questions. Then use google translate. Why do you think you can't take the tests twice the same month? Bingo. Pretty much the same questions.

skk
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by skk » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:04 am

Hi all,

May I please ask some questions about the Open Houses? Would I be missing much, in terms of fitting in, academics and most importantly choosing research advisors, if I am not able to attend them? Also, may I please ask how many students and percentage of the incoming class attend the Open House? How about for international students?

Thank you again, everyone.

michael
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by michael » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:34 am

The open house is really meant to help you make a decision between graduate schools. If you know where you want to go for your PhD, then personally I don't think you will miss out much by not going to the open house.

bfollinprm
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by bfollinprm » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:42 am

If you don't/can't go, I would email the grad coordinator (whoever invited you to the open house) and ask to set up skype interviews with some professors you're interested in. He/she will be more than happy to oblige.

cryingsun
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by cryingsun » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:49 pm

Talking about chinese cheating on general gre, I am chinese and I know many chinese friends who look at cheating websites, many more than those who don't, like myself. This only works for those who take the test in US though, since the general test is in paper format in china. Anyways, nobody pays attention to general verbal, so it is stupid to cheat or spend a whole summer memorizing useless words like I did, or to complain about it.

negru
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by negru » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:45 pm

what do you mean useless to complain about, it costs lots of money

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by WhoaNonstop » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:30 pm

Starting my drive towards Virginia tomorrow, then up to Rhode Island to visit Brown. Gonna be a long trip, I'm sure I'll pass by a lot of you. ;)

-Riley

negru
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by negru » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:34 pm

why don't you take a train and emit less CO2

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grae313
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by grae313 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:58 pm

negru wrote:why don't you take a train and emit less CO2
:roll: fuckin' hippies


:wink:

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by WhoaNonstop » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:59 pm

negru wrote:why don't you take a train and emit less CO2
You of all people would care about the environment? You surprise me.

Also, I would fly if I didn't want to have a car around. However, having my own car will be a huge benefit in checking out the areas.

-Riley

negru
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by negru » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:22 am

of course i care CO2 is a highly toxic gas didn't you know?

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grae313
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by grae313 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:56 pm

I wonder if any of the people that just came back from Cornell's visit weekend (or any other schools', for that matter) would care to add their input re: intangibles and the value of visiting during the organized time? ;)

t2kburl
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by t2kburl » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:48 pm

I visited two schools outside the organized times and one on the open house.
Each had its advantages and disadvantages.
At Colorado State University's open house there was a number of scheduled activities that stole valuable time from more relevant things. Sure, the poster session was a cool idea, but I spent the majority of it getting to know my research advisors rather than exploring other things going on in the department. We were taken on a tour of several different labs and had our minds blown by all the things going on there. Useful for students who have yet to decide exactly what they want to do, I suppose. But, in the end, it was too much too fast. Anyone interested in laser R&D or AMO should consider checking out CSU's ECE program.
On the plus side, seeing prepared presentations on everything and getting a full tour were great. Several of the lab presentations featured grad students doing their work. Seeing them showing off their stuff made a big impression.

The unscheduled visits resulted in a few very brief, informal meetings with potential research advisors. I liked that a little better because I got a better sense of their personalities and teaching styles that way. I was able to focus my time and attention on the projects I was most interested in. But I wasn't able to see much, as far as lab work in action, or meet any other faculty or department chairs, or other grad students, etc.

In both cases I was able to get a fair feel of what the campus and the city are like.

I highly recommend visiting a school and meeting your advisors and grad students in the research group you are interested in before choosing your destination. If possible. If you can't visit for whatever reason, do as much as you can to get to know the place you will be in and people you will be around for the next x years.

axiomofchoice
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by axiomofchoice » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:01 pm

grae313 wrote:I wonder if any of the people that just came back from Cornell's visit weekend (or any other schools', for that matter) would care to add their input re: intangibles and the value of visiting during the organized time? ;)
Just back from Cornell's open house, and I think I met grae there :)

I agree mostly with t2kburl's observations. The scheduled lab tours and presentations of all kinds of research going on in the department are awesome and cool, but it is a bit time consuming and tiring. I guess it never hurts to know more about just your own field (if you have a chosen one). The meetings with potential advisors are certainly important, but that you will get from an unofficial visit as well. What I really enjoy and learn a lots from is the scheduled "hang-out" time with grad students and faculty members like lunches and dinners. I doubt you will get that much hang-out time with professors and students in an unofficial visit without feeling like intruding on their schedule. I also find talks with other prospective students informative, and you get to meet some of your future classmates (hello there if you are reading this and know who I am :wink:).

I think open houses are well worth the time (and I think Cornell is an awesome place!), although I'm still a bit apprehensive in taking two consecutive weeks off from school later this month to attend more open houses.

Jackadsa
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by Jackadsa » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:22 pm

grae313 wrote:I wonder if any of the people that just came back from Cornell's visit weekend (or any other schools', for that matter) would care to add their input re: intangibles and the value of visiting during the organized time? ;)

I visited Cornell's open house and Chicago non open house. Both involved equal amounts of Professor meetings and grad student lunch/dinners. I actually thought that visiting outside of the open house dates resulted in a more personalised experience at Chicago, but I imagine that this could be highly dependent on the graduate administrator (at Chicago she was incredibly helpful and organised everything).

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grae313
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by grae313 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:10 pm

Jackadsa wrote:I visited Cornell's open house and Chicago non open house. Both involved equal amounts of Professor meetings and grad student lunch/dinners. I actually thought that visiting outside of the open house dates resulted in a more personalised experience at Chicago, but I imagine that this could be highly dependent on the graduate administrator (at Chicago she was incredibly helpful and organised everything).
OK, fair enough. I'm skeptical as to how you could possibly interact with as many graduate students and professors as you do through having lunch and dinner with almost the entire department plus dinners and bar outings with dozens of grad students plus a party plus tours with grad students... but the bottom line is you got what you felt you needed out of your Chicago visit, so that is good!

bfollinprm
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by bfollinprm » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:46 am

WhoaNonstop wrote:Starting my drive towards Virginia tomorrow, then up to Rhode Island to visit Brown. Gonna be a long trip, I'm sure I'll pass by a lot of you. ;)

-Riley
I'm sure you're passing by sometime today. If you stop for dinner in Richmond I recommend Black Sheep; get a battleship. Or Kuba Kuba and get a Kubanaso, tres leches cake, and a cup of coffee.

matto07
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by matto07 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:04 am

grae313 wrote:I wonder if any of the people that just came back from Cornell's visit weekend (or any other schools', for that matter) would care to add their input re: intangibles and the value of visiting during the organized time? ;)
Just got back from Cornell (barely... overslept thanks to beer-pong induced hangover). Considering the relatively large number of prospectives visiting this weekend, I was quite surprised how personalized the experience was. I had one-on-one meetings with professors and really felt like I got to know many of the graduate students on a fairly personal level. Though all the grads raved about the department, it didn't seem like a show. The organized tours were quite nice as well; as a theorist, I don't think I would have had a chance to see Cornell's cyclotron or the nano-fabrication lab (mind-blowing facilities, btw) if I hadn't gone to the open house. That being said, this weekend was very exhausting and I would recommend visiting only the 2 or 3 programs you're most interested in.
axiomofchoice wrote: I also find talks with other prospective students informative, and you get to meet some of your future classmates (hello there if you are reading this and know who I am :wink:).
Hello! I think I ran into you at the party on Saturday (and weirded you out by actually recognizing your profile...haha).

KBTPhys
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by KBTPhys » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:59 pm

grae313 wrote:I wonder if any of the people that just came back from Cornell's visit weekend (or any other schools', for that matter) would care to add their input re: intangibles and the value of visiting during the organized time? ;)
Not knowing what to expect when I arrived, I was impressed with the grad students and faculty who showed me around but were not overbearing. I appreciate being able to explore a bit on my own. Along the same lines, I found the hour of unscheduled time I had on Saturday afternoon to be invaluable for processing the information overload. I think some time on Friday would have been nice for that purpose as well. I know schools want the prospective students to get as much info as possible, but I think there's no way to get a real good feel for everything in the department in just a weekend. Definitely fun anyways.

@OP - If you think it's possible you'll go somewhere in your top 3-4 choices, even if unlikely, go ahead and visit. Anything more than 3-4 will get tiring and expensive (time and money). The schools are willing to put up the money to have a chance to convince you to attend there; let them have the chance. That said, if you know for sure you're not going there, don't waste your time and their money. Good luck.

On a related note, three schools in one week is really tiring. Not sure if I'd suggest that route, but they're all near each other and far from home, so one trip seemed to make economic sense.

axiomofchoice
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Re: To visit or not to visit?

Post by axiomofchoice » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:19 am

matto07 wrote: Hello! I think I ran into you at the party on Saturday (and weirded you out by actually recognizing your profile...haha).
That's what one gets for posting profile here :?



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