Geoff Olynyk wrote:Excel, that's not true, the J-1 "student" visa is basically an F-1 but with one important difference -- your spouse can join you in the United States on a J-2 and is allowed to get a SSN and seek employment. F-2 spouses cannot do this.
There are restrictions on the J-1 which do not apply to the F-1, such as: you are only eligible for a J-1 if the "majority" of your funding comes from governmental or scholarship sources (usually not a problem for physics graduate students); you must purchase a comprehensive medical insurance plan (or be given one by the school, also usually not a problem), etc. One J-1 restriction that can be a problem for many people: if your name appears on a "skills list" put out by the Department of State, you have to return home for 2-3 years before you're allowed to get another United States visa.
I have put a significant amount of research into the differences between the two types of student visas. Send me an email (g e o f f _atsign_ o l y n y k . n a m e) if you'd like more information.
Geoff Olynyk wrote:But who among us can really say what our plans are going to be 5-7 years from now?
ibbgs wrote:...
excel wrote:From the U.S. govt. webpage, it seems to me that I was correct after all; the J-1 visa is meant for exchange students, not usually for full-time students seeking U.S. degree.
Geoff Olynyk wrote: There are restrictions on the J-1 which do not apply to the F-1, such as: you are only eligible for a J-1 if the "majority" of your funding comes from governmental or scholarship sources (usually not a problem for physics graduate students); you must purchase a comprehensive medical insurance plan (or be given one by the school, also usually not a problem), etc. One J-1 restriction that can be a problem for many people: if your name appears on a "skills list" put out by the Department of State, you have to return home for 2-3 years before you're allowed to get another United States visa.
ibbgs wrote: The F-1 on the other hand allows you to work another job on the side (McJob) to supplement your income while the J-1 does not.
FNR wrote:Gee, all this visa discussion is priceless. Thanks everyone!![]()
Will I be eligible for the 12 + 17 months "optional practical training (OPT) period" for F-1 holder after graduating with double degree in Physics and Science Education?I understand that Physics degree holder will be eligible for OPT, but I do not know with Science Education degree holder….
vicente wrote:I suppose you could apply for OPT for your Physics degree provided you were intending to work in something related to physics.
vicente wrote:... A receipt of payment of the $100 fee is sufficient ...
TakeruK wrote:The above post appears to be spam, but I just want to come back to this thread after 5.5 years! At my last post, I was just about to start my PhD program on J-1. The reason I chose J-1 status was that my spouse could have J-2 and that allows my spouse to obtain work authorization and find a job in the USA.
Update: After entering the US on J-1 and J-2, my spouse successfully obtained work authorization a few months later and found a job a few months after that. So, we were able to achieve the primary reason we wanted the J visa.
Last summer, I finished my PhD and graduated. I'm back in my home country (Canada) doing a postdoc now. I learned a lot about visa and statuses through my grad school years because I volunteered a lot with the international office. So in case anyone sees this old thread and wonders about F-1 vs J-1 and would like to talk to someone who just finished a PhD degree on J-1, send me a PM
nmarquez027 wrote:TakeruK wrote:The above post appears to be spam, but I just want to come back to this thread after 5.5 years! At my last post, I was just about to start my PhD program on J-1. The reason I chose J-1 status was that my spouse could have J-2 and that allows my spouse to obtain work authorization and find a job in the USA.
Update: After entering the US on J-1 and J-2, my spouse successfully obtained work authorization a few months later and found a job a few months after that. So, we were able to achieve the primary reason we wanted the J visa.
Last summer, I finished my PhD and graduated. I'm back in my home country (Canada) doing a postdoc now. I learned a lot about visa and statuses through my grad school years because I volunteered a lot with the international office. So in case anyone sees this old thread and wonders about F-1 vs J-1 and would like to talk to someone who just finished a PhD degree on J-1, send me a PM
So, the only difference between F1 and J1 is that the J1 dependents can work in the US? Or your previous post about the personal funds is still valid as well?
TakeruK wrote:
No, that is not the only difference. I cited that difference because it is the main reason we chose J-1. There are actually a lot of differences but most of them are very small. Everything I said above is still true. For your convenience, here are the main differences between J-1 and F-1:
1. F-1 is more common so people you interact with at the DMV, Social Security office, etc. will know what to do with F-1 but they might not know what to do with J-1. J-1s have different forms etc. that have the same function as F-1. This is only going to be an issue in the first year when you get stuff set up, but otherwise not a big deal.
2. F-1 has the option for OPT or CPT, which stands for "Optional Practical Training" and "Curricular Practical Training". Normally F-1 and J-1 students cannot work in the USA outside of their TA/RA-ship or other on-campus employment. OPT and CPT allows some time for students to work in their field of study. OPT is for any work in the field of study and can be taken during or after your degree. CPT is for work in the field of study that is required as part of your degree (e.g. if your program has an internship or work co-op component). OPT is now valid for 36 months for STEM fields so it's possible to do your first postdoc on F-1 OPT instead of getting a new visa status such as J-1 (see #5 and #6 below). For J-1, there is no CPT but there is an equivalent to OPT called AT (Academic Training). It works basically the same except it's a little easier to get approved, apparently.
3. F-1 dependents are F-2s and they cannot go to work or school. J-1 dependents are J-2s and they can apply for employment authorization.
4. Funding requirement as above.
5. Some J-1 status holders are subject to the "2-year home residency requirement". If you are from a country that places your degree of study on a "needed skills" list, or if you receive government funding from the USA or your home country, then you may have this box checked on your DS-2019 (the proof of status for J-1). If so, you may be subject to the 2-year home residency requirement, which basically means that before you are allowed to apply for an USA immigration-class visa/status, you must physically reside in your home country for at least 2 years. An immigration class visa is something like H1-B, O-1, E-1 etc. Although each person's case would be different, this typically means as long as you stay on temporary visas, you will be okay. For example, you can stay for your first postdoc on AT status after graduation. Beyond that, your options depend on what visas you may qualify for. It would not be possible to find a permanent job that grants you PR status / green-card etc. though, you would either have to return home for 2 years or get approved for a waiver of this requirement.
6. All J-1 status holders are subject to the "12-month/24-month bar on repeat participation". There are lots of types of J-1 statuses, from au pairs, camp counselors to students to postdocs to visiting faculty members. For the rules relevant to us, you are not allowed to start a J-1 Research Scholar (i.e. postdoc) if you were on any J status in the past 12 months. And if you were a Research Scholar or Professor, then you cannot start another J-1 Research Scholar or Professor until you have waited 24 months. For students, this means that if you were a J-1 PhD student, then you can do your first postdoc (3 years) on AT status. However, after that, since most postdocs are hired on J-1 status, you cannot start another postdoc or professor position on J-1 for another 12 months. This might mean a second postdoc outside of the USA, or going on some other status. For Canadian and Mexican students (i.e. NAFTA partners), we can go on TN status. For J-1 students without the 2 year home residency requirement, they can seek an immigration class visa and not worry about J-1 again.
7. Note: All of the above restrictions for J-1 also apply to the J-2 dependents. Even if you end up split up from your partner or you re-enter at different times. Each J-1 and J-2 person must independently satisfy the above.
Because most postdoc and postdoc-like positions are hired on J-1, from #5 and #6, you see that these can be pretty important factors to consider. I was subject to both 5 and 6. However, it was very important to my spouse and I that both of us can work and advance our careers. So when we thought about it, we realise that these restrictions come only at the end of the 3-year AT period after our PhD. For a 5-6 year PhD program plus 3 year of AT, the problem of what to do "after" is something that is 8-9 years away! We figured that not working for 8-9 years is very bad and a lot can change in 8-9 years. Personally, we never had intention to stay in USA forever so it's not a big deal to us. Our possible plans were:
- Graduate then return to Canada for the first postdoc (2-3 years). This covers both the 2-year thing and the 12-month bar and gives us the freedom to return to the US for another postdoc or permanent job if we wanted. Or we can just stay in Canada forever.
- Graduate, then do a postdoc anywhere else in the word for at least 1 year. This covers #6 but not #5. However, that does mean we can return to the US for a second postdoc on J status (just not on a permanent status). We could also apply for a waiver to the 2-year thing.
- Graduate, do the first postdoc in the USA on AT (up to 3 years) and then do either of the above two options.
- As a Canadian, we qualified for TN, which can be renewed for quite a long time, so we can just keep doing TN status until we decide to do one of the above.
Anyways, hope that was all helpful. I can discuss things further if you have questions. Just a reminder: I'm only writing about my own experience and that people should seek advice from their school's International Office for more up-to-date and certified information (especially for info specific to their needs). Ultimately, I do think there isn't much reason to choose J-1 over F-1 unless you have a spouse that would like to work while you're in the USA for school.
nmarquez027 wrote:Thank you very much for this detailed answer! I've read a lot about this topic in different places, and in a lot of them the information they provide is wrong. For example, I remember reading a couple months ago that the 2-year home residency requirement on a J1 visa won't allow you to apply for an F1 until you fulfill this requirement. As you said (and I also confirmed afterwards) this is only the case if you are applying for an immigration class visa like H1-B, O-1, E-1 etc, not for a student visa.
Just to more questions in case you know the answers: does the 2-year home residency requirement actually impose you to go back to your own country? or you could do a postdoc in another country like you mentioned above, and then come back? (I guess in this case there is a slight difference between what is formally required vs. what is usually done). And also, as far as the waiver for the requirement, do you know if the most straightforward procedure for doing so is the "no objection from your country" letter?
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