NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

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InquilineKea
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NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby InquilineKea » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:12 am

NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rankings?

Here's some more interesting information: http://scienceblogs.com/catdynamics/2010/09/nrc_the_rankings.php

Roughly speaking, the S rankings measure which schools have the most of what professors look for, whereas the R rankings measure reputation. Reputation, however, takes time to develop (one must prove oneself first). And it also takes time to lose (with institutions, at least). If a university scores high on S rankings relative to the R rankings, then can you usually expect it to move up on the R rankings?

(although sometimes things happen. the PA governor just announced that he'd cut Penn State's support by 50% this year).

Ateowa
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby Ateowa » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:50 am

As a student at Penn State, I just wanted to clear this up... PSU currently gets 8% of its total budget from the state. It's been cut and will be 4% in the future. However, the vast majority of research done here isn't done with state funding. It's mostly a minor subsidy for in-state students. So for anyone considering PSU for graduate school, don't let this announcement influence your decision at all.

Adarsh
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby Adarsh » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:17 am

InquilineKea wrote:NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rankings?
Roughly speaking, the S rankings measure which schools have the most of what professors look for, whereas the R rankings measure reputation. Reputation, however, takes time to develop (one must prove oneself first). And it also takes time to lose (with institutions, at least). If a university scores high on S rankings relative to the R rankings, then can you usually expect it to move up on the R rankings?

(although sometimes things happen. the PA governor just announced that he'd cut Penn State's support by 50% this year).


I don't know if you have that correct. S stands for survey and R stands for regression. The survey ranking reflects reputation among professors, and the regression ranking reflects how the schools perform on the factors that professors deem important.

I haven't taken the time to parse the language too carefully though, so I might be off. Correct me if I am.

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HappyQuark
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby HappyQuark » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:32 am

Adarsh wrote:
InquilineKea wrote:NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rankings?
Roughly speaking, the S rankings measure which schools have the most of what professors look for, whereas the R rankings measure reputation. Reputation, however, takes time to develop (one must prove oneself first). And it also takes time to lose (with institutions, at least). If a university scores high on S rankings relative to the R rankings, then can you usually expect it to move up on the R rankings?

(although sometimes things happen. the PA governor just announced that he'd cut Penn State's support by 50% this year).


I don't know if you have that correct. S stands for survey and R stands for regression. The survey ranking reflects reputation among professors, and the regression ranking reflects how the schools perform on the factors that professors deem important.

I haven't taken the time to parse the language too carefully though, so I might be off. Correct me if I am.


According to the NRC, the S and R ranks mean the following:

S-Rank: Programs are ranked highly if they are strong in the criteria that scholars say are most important.

R-Rank: Programs are ranked highly if they have similar features to programs viewed by faculty as top-notch.

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InquilineKea
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby InquilineKea » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:43 am

Ah yeah, I know what S and R really stand for. I merely said what they roughly corresponded to, based on what I read elsewhere (although i don't have the original link with me) - it's much easier to describe those to other people when you say what they roughly correspond to

I did collect a quote on another google search though:
They use very different measures but if you had to compare them then compare the R rankings in NRC with US News. They're both more subjective and based on a department's image within the discipline. The S rankings from the NRC are more "objective" in that they don't directly take departmental image into account. Just depends on what you want in a program. If it's a bettter name school then go with US news and R. If it's better training and school name is less important then go with S.


====
As a student at Penn State, I just wanted to clear this up... PSU currently gets 8% of its total budget from the state. It's been cut and will be 4% in the future. However, the vast majority of research done here isn't done with state funding. It's mostly a minor subsidy for in-state students. So for anyone considering PSU for graduate school, don't let this announcement influence your decision at all.


Ah okay, that's reassuring. Yeah, I lived in a state where the budget cuts could have been more devastating because it was so cheap (relative to other state schools) to begin with.

bfollinprm
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby bfollinprm » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:04 am

Found this cool plot online:
Image

Schools above the line are over- performing versus reputation, and vice-versa. I think this is using NRC data, for astro programs (not physics). The higher up on the graph, the better the school (that puts Penn State 3rd). I'll put the caveat that I pulled the graph off a PSU site for internal use.

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HappyQuark
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby HappyQuark » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:19 pm

Here is a plot of the US News rankings (in blue) in relation to the NRC S-Ranking range (in red).
Looking at it in this form makes me think the two rankings aren't all that far off from one another.
They really only differ significantly on a few key schools.

NRC predicts better scores than US News for:
Boston U, U of Oklahoma, Tulane U, U of Hawaii, U of Mississippi, Wake Forest, and Florida International U.

NRC predicts worse scores than US News for:
UMD, UT-Austin, Rutgers, GIT, U of Arizona, UNC, North Carolina State, USC, U of Tennessee,
Vanderbilt, CUNY Grad Center, U Conn, Oregon State, U of Oregon, Washington State, SUNY
Buffalo, Lehigh U, Montana State, BYU, Oklahoma State and Temple U.

Image

Apologies for the size of the image but I couldn't think of a clever way to display the graphic in
a readable format without directing traffic to a separate page. For effect, when you scroll across
the image yell "BAM!!" really loud. This will help set the appropriate mood for viewing this plot.

Dreaded Anomaly
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby Dreaded Anomaly » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:18 pm

HappyQuark wrote:Here is a plot of the US News rankings (in blue) in relation to the NRC S-Ranking range (in red).
Looking at it in this form makes me think the two rankings aren't all that far off from one another.
They really only differ significantly on a few key schools.

NRC predicts better scores than US News for:
Boston U, U of Oklahoma, Tulane U, U of Hawaii, U of Mississippi, Wake Forest, and Florida International U.

NRC predicts worse scores than US News for:
UMD, UT-Austin, Rutgers, GIT, U of Arizona, UNC, North Carolina State, USC, U of Tennessee,
Vanderbilt, CUNY Grad Center, U Conn, Oregon State, U of Oregon, Washington State, SUNY
Buffalo, Lehigh U, Montana State, BYU, Oklahoma State and Temple U.

http://physicsgrad.com/sites/img/images ... alysis.png

Apologies for the size of the image but I couldn't think of a clever way to display the graphic in
a readable format without directing traffic to a separate page. For effect, when you scroll across
the image yell "BAM!!" really loud. This will help set the appropriate mood for viewing this plot.


You got posted on Cosmic Variance! http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmi ... niversity/

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InquilineKea
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby InquilineKea » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:21 pm

Wow, wow, wow, wow. I am so identifiable. I think one of the professors in my department now knows that I post here.

8 guests reading this now.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby WhoaNonstop » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:15 pm

InquilineKea wrote:Wow, wow, wow, wow. I am so identifiable. I think one of the professors in my department now knows that I post here.

8 guests reading this now.


Might as well add me on facebook now.

-Riley

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HappyQuark
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby HappyQuark » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:36 pm

Dreaded Anomaly wrote:
HappyQuark wrote:Here is a plot of the US News rankings (in blue) in relation to the NRC S-Ranking range (in red).
Looking at it in this form makes me think the two rankings aren't all that far off from one another.
They really only differ significantly on a few key schools.

NRC predicts better scores than US News for:
Boston U, U of Oklahoma, Tulane U, U of Hawaii, U of Mississippi, Wake Forest, and Florida International U.

NRC predicts worse scores than US News for:
UMD, UT-Austin, Rutgers, GIT, U of Arizona, UNC, North Carolina State, USC, U of Tennessee,
Vanderbilt, CUNY Grad Center, U Conn, Oregon State, U of Oregon, Washington State, SUNY
Buffalo, Lehigh U, Montana State, BYU, Oklahoma State and Temple U.

http://physicsgrad.com/sites/img/images ... alysis.png

Apologies for the size of the image but I couldn't think of a clever way to display the graphic in
a readable format without directing traffic to a separate page. For effect, when you scroll across
the image yell "BAM!!" really loud. This will help set the appropriate mood for viewing this plot.


You got posted on Cosmic Variance! http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmi ... niversity/


Unfortunately the blogger that referenced my plot is from the University of Washington and I, at the last minute, decided to drop that application in an attempt to reduce the number of rejections I'd inevitably be paying for. If the person had been from any of the school's that rejected me, I simply would have pointed out that they clearly find my research skills useful and, as such, ought to reconsider my application.

Well UW, what say you? When do I start my graduate program with an RA position?

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InquilineKea
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby InquilineKea » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:48 pm

Unfortunately the blogger that referenced my plot is from the University of Washington and I, at the last minute, decided to drop that application in an attempt to reduce the number of rejections I'd inevitably be paying for. If the person had been from any of the school's that rejected me, I simply would have pointed out that they clearly find my research skills useful and, as such, ought to reconsider my application.

Well UW, what say you? When do I start my graduate program with an RA position?


Well, she is an astronomy professor at the university.

That being said, she is someone who was involved with admissions (not sure about this year, but definitely in the past)

But I can see that your post was subtly witty.

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HappyQuark
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby HappyQuark » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:02 pm

InquilineKea wrote:
Unfortunately the blogger that referenced my plot is from the University of Washington and I, at the last minute, decided to drop that application in an attempt to reduce the number of rejections I'd inevitably be paying for. If the person had been from any of the school's that rejected me, I simply would have pointed out that they clearly find my research skills useful and, as such, ought to reconsider my application.

Well UW, what say you? When do I start my graduate program with an RA position?


Well, she is an astronomy professor at the university.

That being said, she is someone who was involved with admissions (not sure about this year, but definitely in the past)

But I can see that your post was subtly witty.


Replace 'subtly' with 'blatantly' and you've nailed it.

TheBeast
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby TheBeast » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:02 pm

I picture a scene like something out of Spartacus, with a bunch of application hopefuls in tattered clothes surrounding Julianne's office.

"I'm HappyQuark!"
"No, I am HappyQuark!"
"I am HappyQuark!"

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HappyQuark
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby HappyQuark » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:16 pm

TheBeast wrote:I picture a scene like something out of Spartacus, with a bunch of application hopefuls in tattered clothes surrounding Julianne's office.

"I'm HappyQuark!"
"No, I am HappyQuark!"
"I am HappyQuark!"


'Cause I'm Happy Quark, yes I'm the real Quark
All you other Happy Quarks are just imitating
So won't the real Happy Quark please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up?

TheBeast
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby TheBeast » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:19 pm

InquilineKea wrote:Wow, wow, wow, wow. I am so identifiable.

Pro tip: If you wish to retain anonymity on a forum, do not use a username that can readily be linked to your real name elsewhere on the internet.

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InquilineKea
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby InquilineKea » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:24 pm

That's a good idea. In reality, though, I don't really care much if people link my online identity up to my real name (sometimes I even secretly wish that people do that).

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby WhoaNonstop » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:50 pm

TheBeast wrote:Pro tip: If you wish to retain anonymity on a forum, do not use a username that can readily be linked to your real name elsewhere on the internet.


Almost everything I use online is linked through WhoaNonstop.

-Riley

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grae313
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby grae313 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:51 am

InquilineKea wrote:Wow, wow, wow, wow. I am so identifiable. I think one of the professors in my department now knows that I post here.

8 guests reading this now.


Wow, wow, wow, wow. Get over yourself. If you wanted to remain anonymous on the internet, you wouldn't have posted your life details everywhere.

InquilineKea wrote:In reality, though, I don't really care much if people link my online identity up to my real name (sometimes I even secretly wish that people do that).


Yup. So I guess all those wows were just excited wows then?

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InquilineKea
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby InquilineKea » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:21 pm

Mm, they were surprised wows. The fact was that it was a professor I personally knew who posted that thread, not any random faculty member on the Internet.

Obviously I should have anticipated the possibility of this happening, but it's not necessarily a bad thing given that students here aren't allowed to apply to their own department (and I might even get better grad school advice as a result of this).

bfollinprm
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby bfollinprm » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:46 pm

NRC hates all my favorites.... :(

Richwest
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby Richwest » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:44 am

Roughly speaking, the S rankings measure which schools have the most of what professors look for, whereas the R rankings measure reputation. Reputation, however, mobile spy takes time to develop (one must prove oneself first). And it also takes time to lose (with institutions, at least). If a university scores high on S rankings relative to the R rankings, then can you usually expect it to move up on the R rankings?
Last edited by Richwest on Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dorian_Mode
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Re: NRC Rankings - are S rankings a leading indicator for R rank

Postby Dorian_Mode » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:39 pm

Richwest, what was the point of that post?




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