When to ask for deferment?

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hamadahoda007
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When to ask for deferment?

Postby hamadahoda007 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:23 pm

First of all, good luck to all of us in the rest of the admission season.

Secondly, I have been accepted for some schools to start my Physics PhD in Fall11. However, I have been called for obligatory military service in my country. By the end of March I will know whether this military service period is gonna last for 1 or 2.5 years. In the case of the 1 year period, should I ask for deferring my offers before the April 15th deadline? or does this have to come after me choosing and accepting a certain offer?

Also, in case they need me here for 2.5 years, is it the case that I have to say bye bye to all my offers and academic plans, given that I will do nothing related to physics in those years? :(

Thanks in advance for your help :)

bfollinprm
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby bfollinprm » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:28 pm

hamadahoda007 wrote:First of all, good luck to all of us in the rest of the admission season.

Secondly, I have been accepted for some schools to start my Physics PhD in Fall11. However, I have been called for obligatory military service in my country. By the end of March I will know whether this military service period is gonna last for 1 or 2.5 years. In the case of the 1 year period, should I ask for deferring my offers before the April 15th deadline? or does this have to come after me choosing and accepting a certain offer?

Also, in case they need me here for 2.5 years, is it the case that I have to say bye bye to all my offers and academic plans, given that I will do nothing related to physics in those years? :(

Thanks in advance for your help :)


You have to accept an offer in order to defer it. If you're out >1 year, they probably won't hold your spot, though you can ask. If you do reject any offer, be very careful in your decline letter to point out why you're not going; some schools hold it against you if you apply once and decline (they won't accept you again later).

ol
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby ol » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:56 pm

You should ask each school their policy on deferments, especially in light of your situation (which is rather unique). In the case of one year, most schools will definitely hold a spot for you. If 2.5 years, you may be able to have guaranteed readmission provided you reapply.

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twistor
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby twistor » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:57 pm

Unless you plan on returning back to your home country someday (in which case thanks in advance for coming to the US, taking up an admissions slot, sopping up our educational resources, and then bailing out on us) why not just accept the offer and ditch the motherland?

bfollinprm
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby bfollinprm » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:14 pm

twistor wrote:Unless you plan on returning back to your home country someday (in which case thanks in advance for coming to the US, taking up an admissions slot, sopping up our educational resources, and then bailing out on us) why not just accept the offer and ditch the motherland?


Um, would you want to totally prevent yourself from ever going to visit your family?

marcopolo0330
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby marcopolo0330 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:30 pm

twistor wrote:Unless you plan on returning back to your home country someday (in which case thanks in advance for coming to the US, taking up an admissions slot, sopping up our educational resources, and then bailing out on us) why not just accept the offer and ditch the motherland?


If he does not return to his home country some day, he will not only take up and admission slot, he will take a job slot and you'll be another ones of those south park hillbilly saying " he took my job !" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2SvLUOJbgk

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twistor
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby twistor » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:10 pm

marcopolo0330 wrote:
twistor wrote:Unless you plan on returning back to your home country someday (in which case thanks in advance for coming to the US, taking up an admissions slot, sopping up our educational resources, and then bailing out on us) why not just accept the offer and ditch the motherland?


If he does not return to his home country some day, he will not only take up and admission slot, he will take a job slot and you'll be another ones of those south park hillbilly saying " he took my job !" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2SvLUOJbgk


Perhaps you have a point.

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twistor
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby twistor » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:11 pm

bfollinprm wrote:
twistor wrote:Unless you plan on returning back to your home country someday (in which case thanks in advance for coming to the US, taking up an admissions slot, sopping up our educational resources, and then bailing out on us) why not just accept the offer and ditch the motherland?


Um, would you want to totally prevent yourself from ever going to visit your family?


Obviously I would. You can always get a new mother, but a Ph.d. is forever.

hamadahoda007
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby hamadahoda007 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:26 pm

Thanks bfollinprm and ol for your help :)

twistor wrote:Unless you plan on returning back to your home country someday (in which case thanks in advance for coming to the US, taking up an admissions slot, sopping up our educational resources, and then bailing out on us) why not just accept the offer and ditch the motherland?



Of course I am planing to come back ! Do you think that 100% of the international students are planing for complete immigration to the US? It is very normal and natural that we, international students, have future plans that do not necessarily include flourishing the States' economy... If you were not American, if you were from sub-Saharan Africa for instance, won't you search for getting the best education for yourself, and maybe even for your country? and be sure that no offer will be made to an international student unless the universities and the US funding agencies are 100% sure that they will gain more financial benefits from giving this student their money.. They don't pay us as a kind of charity! They pay us because they need us, that's simply it ! So, it is really the case that we, international students, are doing a favor for the US economy because our skills and knowledge are seriously needed for the advancement of research..

Anyway, the problem is that my country now called me for military service and as a consequence they legally prohibited me from travelling. They will not allow me in the airport to travel anywhere.

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grae313
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby grae313 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:09 pm

I smell a fight about to break out.

Can we stay away from the finger pointing and name calling, and remember that it isn't productive anymore to think of individual countries as isolated entities? We are one world and one people.

hamadahoda, you want the best education for yourself so you come here. You need us because we have the best schools. We recruit the brightest and best students from around the world because that, on average, keeps these as the best Universities in the world, so we need you too. It's a mutually beneficial relationship and wouldn't exist otherwise. If an international student stays here and contributes to the US economy, that's a fine thing. If an international student returns home and helps their country, that's also a fine thing. The Universities further the knowledge of the world, lifting it one tiny step further out of poverty and ignorance, and that is always a good thing. Why is it such a big deal if it goes, in some instances, to other parts of the world? In a way, it's community service of the highest order.

hamadahoda007
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby hamadahoda007 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:50 pm

grae313 wrote:I smell a fight about to break out.

Can we stay away from the finger pointing and name calling, and remember that it isn't productive anymore to think of individual countries as isolated entities? We are one world and one people.

hamadahoda, you want the best education for yourself so you come here. You need us because we have the best schools. We recruit the brightest and best students from around the world because that, on average, keeps these as the best Universities in the world, so we need you too. It's a mutually beneficial relationship and wouldn't exist otherwise. If an international student stays here and contributes to the US economy, that's a fine thing. If an international student returns home and helps their country, that's also a fine thing. The Universities further the knowledge of the world, lifting it one tiny step further out of poverty and ignorance, and that is always a good thing. Why is it such a big deal if it goes, in some instances, to other parts of the world? In a way, it's community service of the highest order.


I can't agree more. It is a win-win relationship, and it's all one world. Sorry that I got intrigued by the reply because it was really offending and kinda discriminative. Don't worry, the fire of the fight is extinguished, at least at my side :)

More importantly, do you have anything, Grae313, as a reply to my initial post? :)

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twistor
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby twistor » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:56 pm

It's a mutually beneficial relationship and wouldn't exist otherwise.


That's not a very good argument. It would be mutually beneficial for the Taliban to team up with Dr. Evil to bolster their attempts at world conquest. A good thing for them and a bad thing for the rest of us.

Why is it such a big deal if it goes, in some instances, to other parts of the world? In a way, it's community service of the highest order.


Because economics is a zero-sum game.

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grae313
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby grae313 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:09 pm

twistor wrote:
grae313 wrote:It's a mutually beneficial relationship and wouldn't exist otherwise.

That's not a very good argument. It would be mutually beneficial for the Taliban to team up with Dr. Evil to bolster their attempts at world conquest. A good thing for them and a bad thing for the rest of us.

OK, it's a mutually beneficial relationship between non-supervillains that brings about results that the majority of people would find objectively beneficial to the world at large. Better?

twistor wrote:
grae313 wrote:Why is it such a big deal if it goes, in some instances, to other parts of the world? In a way, it's community service of the highest order.

Because economics is a zero-sum game.

I think people mostly abandoned this simplistic view of economics a few hundred years ago. Most people would argue that many aspects of economics are not zero-sum. Like knowledge, there is not a fixed amount of wealth in the world.

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grae313
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby grae313 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:11 pm

hamadahoda007 wrote:More importantly, do you have anything, Grae313, as a reply to my initial post? :)


You question has been answered to the best of anyone's ability here. Contact the admissions secretaries at the schools at the top of your list and ask them what their policy is for your situation. It's pretty simple.

bfollinprm
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby bfollinprm » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:55 pm

grae313 wrote:
twistor wrote:
grae313 wrote:Why is it such a big deal if it goes, in some instances, to other parts of the world? In a way, it's community service of the highest order.

Because economics is a zero-sum game.

I think people mostly abandoned this simplistic view of economics a few hundred years ago. Most people would argue that many aspects of economics are not zero-sum. Like knowledge, there is not a fixed amount of wealth in the world.



In fact, it is the rejection of this assumption that leads to governments taking people's tax income and using it to fund our PhD work. We aren't being trained for a job, we're being paid to be knowledge producers. Knowledge (spread in peer-reviewed journals) has a funny way of helping everyone, regardless of nationality.

I would argue that too many people are getting paid to do this (since most of us stop being knowledge producers a few years after obtaining our PhD), but it's hard to see the function of a PhD as job training. Otherwise we'd have to say the system is in great need of repair, since it does that job training bit pretty poorly.

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twistor
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby twistor » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:37 pm

I'm going to lmao when everyone arguing in favor of the "greater good" is left jobless because they supported the importation of people who will work for far reduced wages.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby WhoaNonstop » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:43 pm

twistor wrote:I'm going to lmao when everyone arguing in favor of the "greater good" is left jobless because they supported the importation of people who will work for far reduced wages.


You're right, I think in the future we should only let immigrants work in the Medical Physics field. ;D

-Riley

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twistor
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby twistor » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:27 pm

WhoaNonstop wrote:
twistor wrote:I'm going to lmao when everyone arguing in favor of the "greater good" is left jobless because they supported the importation of people who will work for far reduced wages.


You're right, I think in the future we should only let immigrants work in the Medical Physics field. ;D

-Riley


Yep, because the 9% unemployment rate is testimony to the fact that we have just too many jobs.

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zxcv
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Re: When to ask for deferment?

Postby zxcv » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:18 am

grae313 wrote:
twistor wrote:Because economics is a zero-sum game.

I think people mostly abandoned this simplistic view of economics a few hundred years ago. Most people would argue that many aspects of economics are not zero-sum. Like knowledge, there is not a fixed amount of wealth in the world.

Dear moderator,

This is what is known as "feeding the trolls" :D.

Cheers,
zxcv




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