Anyone Waitlisted?

  • This has become our largest and most active forum because the physics GRE is just one aspect of getting accepted into a graduate physics program.
  • There are applications, personal statements, letters of recommendation, visiting schools, anxiety of waiting for acceptances, deciding between schools, finding out where others are going, etc.

vesperlynd
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Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby vesperlynd » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:21 pm

.. deleted
Last edited by vesperlynd on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ashowmega
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby ashowmega » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:08 pm

BTW, congrats vesperlynd for achieving 100% acceptances!
Last edited by ashowmega on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ticklecricket
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby ticklecricket » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:53 am

There is certainly someone out there who is on the waitlist for those schools and for who an acceptance would be a huge deal. I'm not pressuring anyone into giving up options before they feel ready to make a good decision. However, someone such as yourself who has 8 acceptances from quite a hefty list of schools would be doing someone (who may or may not be on these forums) a huge favor by narrowing down your options.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby WhoaNonstop » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:37 am

ashowmega wrote:BTW, congrats vesperlynd for achieving 100% acceptances!


vesperylnd wrote:list of schools accepted to deleted by request


I just wanted to congratulate you as well vesperlynd.

However, this is what admissionprof's request was about, and something that personally bothers me as well, even though I'm not sitting on any waitlist. You've been accepted to all 8 schools for over a week now and five of those schools for three weeks. Regardless if it is someone on this site, there is someone sitting on a waitlist somewhere that could be getting accepted to these schools. I think it is only fair to cut this list in half. I'm sure in your mind you have obvious preferences, take off the schools that you're sure you will not attend and give someone else somewhere a smile at an acceptance from another school (or even their FIRST acceptance).

-Riley
Last edited by WhoaNonstop on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sphy
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby sphy » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:28 am

Many congrats to vesperlynd. Hope you'll achieve all the success in your life.
All the best.
Take care.
Last edited by sphy on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

bfollinprm
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby bfollinprm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:31 am

I can't drop anything right now, due to 2 body problem, but I'm likely to notify Pitt and Case that I won't be going. I feel comfortable saying that here because I already told the schools this; though they're still holding the door open for me.

vesperlynd
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby vesperlynd » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:30 am

..
Last edited by vesperlynd on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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grae313
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby grae313 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:44 pm

vesperlynd wrote:I think it would be a good idea to let people know if you are waitlisted at a school, so if an accepted person doesn't want to get there, they know which schools to decline first.

Anyone waitlisted at UCLA, UCSD, or UCSB and want to go?


This is silly. There are people waitlisted everywhere, and just because you've interacted with some on an online forum doesn't make their plight more important. If you don't want to go to a school you are accepted to, decline the offer. You can bet that at every school, there is someone waitlisted for whom that school is their top choice. Don't be selfish.

As has been said so many times before on this forum, if you have doubts, take your time and consider your options. If you are pretty sure, there's no reason to hold onto those acceptances that you have no intention of responding favorably to.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby WhoaNonstop » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:41 pm

vesperlynd wrote:..


Hey! I have an idea guys. If we were accepted to all of our prospective schools, we should hold it over everyone's head. Perhaps we could start a thread asking about people who are on specific waitlists. After hearing their response, we could possibly make them bow before us and beg to decline the offer for that school. This way when we decline a school and someone else we know receives an acceptance to that school, we can assume it was solely because of our actions. This will give us assurance that we are indeed a humanitarian and we will be constantly thanked.

Or perhaps we could get reasonable responses about our actions from other long-standing members of the forum that suggest we do not do this. However, why should we respond sensibly? They obviously have no idea what is best for us. In fact, to show them that we mean business, we should delete a handful of our posts, including the information contained in our applicant profiles. If people aren't going to constantly thank us for it being posted there, why should we keep it around? Even better yet, maybe we could repost the profile and add a "donation" link as well.

Honestly, this may be the most annoyed I've been on this forum by a single user's actions.

-Riley

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midwestphysics
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby midwestphysics » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:59 pm

And boom goes the dynamite! At the end of the day, do whatever you want to do. If you're not sure yet just hold out until you're ready, if you know you're not going somewhere don't ask, just decline. Simple as that, and nobody here, I think, is asking anything more than that.

bfollinprm
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby bfollinprm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:16 pm

midwestphysics wrote:If you're not sure yet just hold out until you're ready.


This reminded me of something I wanted to mention at some point: If you are pretty sure you don't want to go to a school, but are holding out until after the campus visit, I'd recommend emailing the school and asking if you can visit earlier. They'll say yes, it will give you clarity (for your sanity), and will make your life less hectic around decision deadline time.

It has the added bonus of helping out waitlisted students, who won't have to wait until the 10th of april to find out if they're in or not.

Though sorry, Riley (and adminprof), but I agree with midwestphysics on this one. People who have been admitted have earned that admission, and with it comes the right to make their decision by April 15th. We don't have the right to move them any faster, just because it's nice for other people. I do think there's an emotional advantage to the applicant to reject offers, and there really is no sense to holding an admission to USC in your back pocket once you've obtained admission to Princeton, but it's tough to say you'd prefer one school over another without visiting those schools, especially if they are similar tier.

Grae, was Cornell in your top 3 before you visited?
Last edited by bfollinprm on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HappyQuark
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:22 pm

Since vesperlynd deleted the original post, here it is re-posted from googles cache for some context,

vesperlynd's original post wrote:I think it would be a good idea to let people know if you are waitlisted at a school, so if an accepted person doesn't want to get there, they know which schools to decline first.

Anyone waitlisted at UCLA, UCSD, or UCSB and want to go?

bfollinprm
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby bfollinprm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:25 pm

HappyQuark wrote:Since vesperlynd deleted the original post, here it is re-posted from googles cache




Already posted in Grae's quotation. No need, HQ.
Though seriously, Vesperlynd. If you don't want to go, reject the offers. Are you expecting payment, or what?
Last edited by bfollinprm on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HappyQuark
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:30 pm

[Edited upon vesperlynd's request]
Last edited by HappyQuark on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Goran15
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby Goran15 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:40 pm

bfollinprm wrote:
Though sorry, Riley (and adminprof), but I agree with midwestphysics on this one. People who have been admitted have earned that admission


Well let's address this for a second shall we? As my father used to say: "I'm white, straight, middle class, sane male. No one cares about me." And I'll just add I'm an international student. So, while I will admit that US students should have advantage (though at this rate I do predict eventual downfall of the US education system), I do not agree that being female should add +50% on your application (where are all you loud mouth neo feminists now?). Nor due I aprove of the policy that equals mine 50+ passed exams (US grad level with >80% physics, rest math) with 3 years undergrad or US system of picking what ever the hell you like (history,art?).

This is not aimed at anyone in particular just a RANT about the inequality that is life (regardless of how much you americans try to deny it).

p.s. I got plenty more where that came from if anyone's interested :D

Back to writing my thesis!
Last edited by Goran15 on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

et
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby et » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:49 pm

I think it's kind of unnecessarily hostile to repost deleted content without any idea why it was deleted. I doubt it was because of the responses to this thread, which were uniformly civil until the profile was deleted. I am curious to know the reason, though.

vttd
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby vttd » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:52 pm

I think your reposting of deleted comments is really immature. You do not know the reasoning behind the original question and you are coming off really hostile. Some waitlists haven't been established, and vesperlynd could have been waiting to visit those schools, but if someone was really waiting for prospectives to decline she would have declined the ones she thought she might not attend.

vesperlynd
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby vesperlynd » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:53 pm

I'm really sorry I posted this thread in the first place. Half of the things mentioned here were not intended at all, and I feel really bad that they were taken the wrong way. Can one of the moderators please just delete this thread?

I'm sure I'm going to be hounded for this post now. I'm sorry.

@HQ: I declined one of them today. And probably will with another one in the next few days.
Last edited by vesperlynd on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bfollinprm
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby bfollinprm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:55 pm

Goran15 wrote:
bfollinprm wrote:
Though sorry, Riley (and adminprof), but I agree with midwestphysics on this one. People who have been admitted have earned that admission


Well let's address this for a second shall we? As my father used to say: "I'm white, straight, middle class, sane male. No one cares about me." And I'll just add I'm an international student. So, while I will admit that US students should have advantage (though at this rate I do predict eventual downfall of the US education system), I do not agree that being female should add +50% on your application (where are all you loud mouth neo feminists now?). Nor due I aprove of the policy that equals mine 50+ passed exams (US grad level with >80% physics, rest math) with 3 years undergrad or US system of picking what ever the hell you like (history,art?).


I understand that there are people who deserved admission that didn't get it, and that between those who got it and those who didn't there is a lot of arbitrariness. But don't take away the fact that those who got in deserve to get in, that doesn't follow from the fact that some people who deserved to get in didn't.

As regards to why admissions committees rank things the way they do, and why "being female adds +50% on your application", schools have the right to decide what they think is important in their own admission process. Being upset about it shows a sense of entitlement that none of us deserve. Personally, I think being a woman is much more of a hindrance to admission (deep set biases in research advisors, proven difficulty with GRE-style testing environments, irrational (and prejudiced) concerns that they'll marry and drop out, etc) than a help. I know of at least one woman turned down from a research group because of her gender. And I learned a lot in my philosophy classes that made me a better physicist (there's more to this job than sitting a ton of physics papers, by the way). I spent some time in the European system, and I can say that while physics majors there were more book smart (and had more classes), it was generally the American exchange students who showed the greater propensity for problem solving.

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HappyQuark
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:56 pm

vttd wrote:I think your reposting of deleted comments is really immature. You do not know the reasoning behind the original question and you are coming off really hostile. Some waitlists haven't been established, and vesperlynd could have been waiting to visit those schools, but if someone was really waiting for prospectives to decline she would have declined the ones she thought she might not attend.


I've already removed the information I posted so I don't know what you are still on about.

With that said, the user profiles on this site are an extremely useful data set and I think it's absurd that someone would corrupt the information over a little internet tantrum. I deleted the information upon vesperlynd's request which is unfortunate because there really is a relatively small number of female profiles on the forum and 1 less makes it that much harder for upcoming students to judge their applications.
Last edited by HappyQuark on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HappyQuark
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:04 pm

bfollinprm wrote:
Goran15 wrote:
bfollinprm wrote:
Though sorry, Riley (and adminprof), but I agree with midwestphysics on this one. People who have been admitted have earned that admission


Well let's address this for a second shall we? As my father used to say: "I'm white, straight, middle class, sane male. No one cares about me." And I'll just add I'm an international student. So, while I will admit that US students should have advantage (though at this rate I do predict eventual downfall of the US education system), I do not agree that being female should add +50% on your application (where are all you loud mouth neo feminists now?). Nor due I aprove of the policy that equals mine 50+ passed exams (US grad level with >80% physics, rest math) with 3 years undergrad or US system of picking what ever the hell you like (history,art?).


I understand that there are people who deserved admission that didn't get it, and that between those who got it and those who didn't there is a lot of arbitrariness. But don't take away the fact that those who got in deserve to get in, that doesn't follow from the fact that some people who deserved to get in didn't.


Nobody is suggesting that these people don't deserve their acceptances, just that they shouldn't be inconsiderate with their decisions.

I'm not going to criticize somebody who can afford to buy a Merc CLK Black, but I will criticize them if they park it horizontally across 3 spaces because they feel like they are afforded some special privilege that burdens others. This, in essence, is what I imagine most of us are complaining about.

bfollinprm
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby bfollinprm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:05 pm

vesperlynd wrote:I'm really sorry I posted this thread in the first place. Half of the things mentioned here were not intended at all, and I feel really bad that they were taken the wrong way. Can one of the moderators please just delete this thread?
I'm sure I'm going to be hounded for this post now. I'm sorry.


I wouldn't apologize. Like I said, if I were you I wouldn't reject anything before I visited (though I would try to visit earlier). Maybe LA is a much better place than, say, SF (I don't think so, but that's only my opinion). Most of this I think is just pent-up anxiety, with a mild case of jealousness. You deserve to take your time.

bfollinprm wrote:Though seriously, Vesperlynd. If you don't want to go, reject the offers. Are you expecting payment, or what?

If there’s an apology, it should be me giving it. I assumed something, which probably isn’t true, and for that I’m sorry.
For the record, I would like an acceptance to UCSD, but I think I’ll get one eventually anyway (they’ve only sent a few offers out so far acc. to grad cafe).

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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby bfollinprm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:07 pm

HappyQuark wrote:
Nobody is suggesting that these people don't deserve their acceptances


In fact, I think that's exactly what Goran was suggesting as regards females and liberal art students.

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HappyQuark
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:07 pm

vesperlynd wrote:I'm really sorry I posted this thread in the first place. Half of the things mentioned here were not intended at all, and I feel really bad that they were taken the wrong way. Can one of the moderators please just delete this thread?

I'm sure I'm going to be hounded for this post now. I'm sorry.

@HQ: I declined one of them today. And probably will with another one in the next few days.


Glad to hear you are declining your offers that you aren't interested in. For what it's worth, I didn't assume that your initial response was so horribly inconsiderate, I was primarily reacting to the mass exodus of posts and profile info you engaged in.
Last edited by HappyQuark on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HappyQuark
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:09 pm

bfollinprm wrote:
HappyQuark wrote:
Nobody is suggesting that these people don't deserve their acceptances


In fact, I think that's exactly what Goran was suggesting as regards females and liberal art students.


Fair enough. When I said nobody I was primarily referring to Rily, Grae, Admissionprof, myself, etc (i.e. the people you were responding to the first time you suggested that people had earned and deserved their acceptances).

axiomofchoice
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby axiomofchoice » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:13 pm

Sorry guys, but I think the reactions here are really overblown. versperlynd is probably a little extreme in removing all her posts, but if she feels uncomfortable in this forum, there is no need for you, HappyQuark, to put her old post and profile back up. [Before you say that the posts are out there whether or not it is put here, it makes a huge difference between those who made an effort to dig them up and those who just browse the forum casually.]

It is easy to decide between Nowhere State University and Harvard, but between Harvard and MIT? Princeton and Stanford? One may be slightly better than the other in one aspect (e.g. one more prof. working on field of interest, easier quals, more money, or something), but at that level, nothing is clear cut. Since we are making a decision not only where to spend the next few years of our live, but a decision that very likely impacts the rest of our lives, no one should feel pressured to give any school up he/she is ready. Plus, many schools on versperlynd's list have late open houses (late March / early April).

It's understandable to have resentment toward someone who are holding on to many spots including your dream school, but please withheld your resentment to yourself and please be understanding that he/she needs time to make a decision.

EDIT: okay my response is about 5 or 6 posts too late. Oh well, I need to learn to be a better typist.

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grae313
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby grae313 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:18 pm

bfollinprm wrote:Though sorry, Riley (and adminprof), but I agree with midwestphysics on this one. People who have been admitted have earned that admission, and with it comes the right to make their decision by April 15th. We don't have the right to move them any faster, just because it's nice for other people.


This comes up ever year and I don't think ANYONE (Riley or admissionprof) has EVER or WOULD EVER suggest otherwise. Everyone agrees with this.

Nobody ever said to drop an offer that you are considering. There is no rule that says that you have to drop an offer if you aren't considering it. It's just a really nice thing to do, both for the students and for the schools, and so we remind people every year to please do this. If you're still considering it, for god's sake, don't decline your offer.


bfollinprm wrote:Grae, was Cornell in your top 3 before you visited?

Cornell and Berkeley were tied for my top picks before visiting.

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HappyQuark
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:18 pm

axiomofchoice wrote:Sorry guys, but I think the reactions here are really overblown. versperlynd is probably a little extreme in removing all her posts, but if she feels uncomfortable in this forum, there is no need for you, HappyQuark, to put her old post and profile back up. [Before you say that the posts are out there whether or not it is put here, it makes a huge difference between those who made an effort to dig them up and those who just browse the forum casually.


"dig them up" is a bit exagerated, don't ya think? I copied/pasted the web address into google and clicked "cache". Very little sleuthing actually occurred.

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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby bfollinprm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:44 pm

grae313 wrote: It's just a really nice thing to do, both for the students and for the schools, and so we remind people every year to please do this. If you're still considering it, for god's sake, don't decline your offer.


I think there's a fine line between reminding people of this fact and pressuring them to drop schools. Riley's original post that started all this hoopla fairly obliterated it.

astrok
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby astrok » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:52 pm

Goran15 wrote:Well let's address this for a second shall we? As my father used to say: "I'm white, straight, middle class, sane male. No one cares about me." And I'll just add I'm an international student. So, while I will admit that US students should have advantage (though at this rate I do predict eventual downfall of the US education system), I do not agree that being female should add +50% on your application (where are all you loud mouth neo feminists now?). Nor due I aprove of the policy that equals mine 50+ passed exams (US grad level with >80% physics, rest math) with 3 years undergrad or US system of picking what ever the hell you like (history,art?).

This is not aimed at anyone in particular just a RANT about the inequality that is life (regardless of how much you americans try to deny it).

p.s. I got plenty more where that came from if anyone's interested :D

Back to writing my thesis!


I certainly wouldn't consider myself a neo feminist, but if you are going to post rants like this, I am still going to say something.

To address your first mini-rant, about US students having an advantage while applying to US schools, let's not act like that is unique to the US education system. It is terribly difficult to obtain funding to attend a university anywhere in the world if you are not a national of the country which it resides in. Since US schools don't admit without funding (in general), this is just how it goes.

Next, being female does not add +50% to anybody's application, nor do I know what makes you think that. It's true that the PGRE scores of admitted female students tend to be lower for any given school (at least according to this website), but it has been stressed over and over again the the PGRE is just one aspect of an application. You'll notice that female applicants admitted to schools with relatively low PGRE scores have fantastic profiles otherwise.

In response to your last rant, The US and the European educational models are different, get over it. Your three year undergrad is different than the standard four year undergrad in the US...shocking. Just because you weren't allowed the academic freedom to pursue anything except for math and physics doesn't mean you should criticize US undergrads for having interests outside of physics. Believe it or not, being well-rounded is not a bad thing.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby WhoaNonstop » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:13 pm

bfollinprm wrote:I think there's a fine line between reminding people of this fact and pressuring them to drop schools. Riley's original post that started all this hoopla fairly obliterated it.


WhoaNonstop wrote:However, this is what admissionprof's request was about, and something that personally bothers me as well, even though I'm not sitting on any waitlist. You've been accepted to all 8 schools for over a week now and five of those schools for three weeks. Regardless if it is someone on this site, there is someone sitting on a waitlist somewhere that could be getting accepted to these schools. I think it is only fair to cut this list in half. I'm sure in your mind you have obvious preferences, take off the schools that you're sure you will not attend and give someone else somewhere a smile at an acceptance from another school (or even their FIRST acceptance).

-Riley


First of all, I would like to point out the original reason for this thread being posted (and hence the reason why I think there was a quick extraction of the material contained after a few responses). What is everyone's impression on why this thread was posted? Obviously the original poster had been considering dropping a few of their schools. Since they were making a thread about people "waitlisted", it was fairly relevant that this was indeed the case. My response was meant to encourage that regardless of who is on what wait list, you should never hold on to a school longer than you have to. I posted my own opinion on how one should go about this and maybe that was taken as harsh.

Even if one was to apply to the top 10 programs and get accepted to all of them, there are so many factors that should help to eliminate a few of these schools. Location, stipend amount, cost of living, research interests, etc. It is under my impression that one should not have to visit every top 10 school, even if they were accepted to them. I think one would have fairly clear preferences without visiting, which should cut the list down.

I'm still awestruck by the hasty reaction by the original poster. As grae has already said, I did not intend the original poster to feel pressured to decline schools IF they feel there is a chance they will attend them. However, I think once they start to be honest with themselves, they will see that it isn't unreasonable to let go of a few of their options. Of course, there is no personal reward in doing so, but I'm sure someone else would love to visit those schools before they have to make a decision as well.

-Riley

P.S. - I don't start Hooplas. I play hopskotch.

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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby bfollinprm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:19 pm

WhoaNonstop wrote:
bfollinprm wrote:I think there's a fine line between reminding people of this fact and pressuring them to drop schools. Riley's original post that started all this hoopla fairly obliterated it.


WhoaNonstop wrote:However, this is what admissionprof's request was about, and something that personally bothers me as well, even though I'm not sitting on any waitlist. You've been accepted to all 8 schools for over a week now and five of those schools for three weeks. Regardless if it is someone on this site, there is someone sitting on a waitlist somewhere that could be getting accepted to these schools. I think it is only fair to cut this list in half. I'm sure in your mind you have obvious preferences, take off the schools that you're sure you will not attend and give someone else somewhere a smile at an acceptance from another school (or even their FIRST acceptance).

-Riley


First of all, I would like to point out the original reason for this thread being posted (and hence the reason why I think there was a quick extraction of the material contained after a few responses). What is everyone's impression on why this thread was posted? Obviously the original poster had been considering dropping a few of their schools. Since they were making a thread about people "waitlisted", it was fairly relevant that this was indeed the case. My response was meant to encourage that regardless of who is on what wait list, you should never hold on to a school longer than you have to. I posted my own opinion on how one should go about this and maybe that was taken as harsh.
-Riley


I didn't mean that post. But regardless, let's just put it all behind us.

Even if one was to apply to the top 10 programs and get accepted to all of them, there are so many factors that should help to eliminate a few of these schools. Location, stipend amount, cost of living, research interests, etc. It is under my impression that one should not have to visit every top 10 school, even if they were accepted to them. I think one would have fairly clear preferences without visiting, which should cut the list down.


I disagree. The most important thing after research (which every school you apply to should qualify on) is how you'd fit in the department you're going to have to spend 5-6 years in. And you can't find that out until you visit.

negru
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby negru » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:28 pm

umm you guys realize that refusing an offer does not translate to someone else getting an offer, right? Most school admit sometimes up to twice as many students that they can enroll, knowing that about half of them will decline? So unless way way more students decline the offers than expected, no one will be getting off the waitlist.

bfollinprm
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby bfollinprm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:31 pm

negru wrote:umm you guys realize that refusing an offer does not translate to someone else getting an offer, right? Most school admit sometimes up to twice as many students that they can enroll, knowing that about half of them will decline? So unless way way more students decline the offers than expected, no one will be getting off the waitlist.


This year that's not quite true, or so some people have been saying. Especially at state schools. There literally is NO extra money in budgets, so they can't risk a large class.

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grae313
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby grae313 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:32 pm

bfollinprm wrote:I disagree. The most important thing after research (which every school you apply to should qualify on) is how you'd fit in the department you're going to have to spend 5-6 years in. And you can't find that out until you visit.


I also disagree. There are some things you just don't get a sense of until you visit. Each department has it's own feel and you really have to go and interact with the students that might become your peers and the professors that might become your adviser. You have to see the city and tour the facilities. It wasn't until I visited Stanford that I realized most of the people there were little shits, the town was stuffy, and the nanotech facilities were glossy and new but under-equipped. It wasn't until I talked with my potential adviser at Berkeley and his students that I realized I wouldn't be happy in what I thought was one of my "dream groups" and it wasn't until I felt completely at home with the professors and grad students at Cornell and got blown away by CNF that I was able to make my decision.

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grae313
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby grae313 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:32 pm

negru wrote:umm you guys realize that refusing an offer does not translate to someone else getting an offer, right? Most school admit sometimes up to twice as many students that they can enroll, knowing that about half of them will decline? So unless way way more students decline the offers than expected, no one will be getting off the waitlist.


Sure, there is not a 1 to 1 correlation, but I don't see how this changes the arguments at all.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby WhoaNonstop » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:33 pm

bfollinprm wrote:I didn't mean that post. But regardless, let's just put it all behind us.


You mean the post I replied with after they had deleted their posts/information?

Unless, my understanding of causality is incorrect, I'm afraid to say that the original poster's reaction was the cause, and my response was the effect. I've never seen a cause come after an effect.

I still think it's ridiculous to have to visit the top 10 schools just to eliminate them. I'm not saying everyone should be capable of eliminating schools before visiting them, but in general I think most should have an idea of where they are probably going.

If for some reason I would have applied to all the top 10 schools and was accepted to all of them, I'd be able to break it down to 3 or 4 quite quickly, based on places I wanted to be, research interests, and stipend per cost of living. Then again, this is subjective to how my mind works, maybe someone else wouldn't be able to do that.

negru wrote:umm you guys realize that refusing an offer does not translate to someone else getting an offer, right? Most school admit sometimes up to twice as many students that they can enroll, knowing that about half of them will decline? So unless way way more students decline the offers than expected, no one will be getting off the waitlist.


I am well aware there isn't a 1 to 1 ratio here. However, if there are 10 people who don't want to go to a school and they all refuse, yes that might get someone off the wait list. It still does not make the point of declining schools you aren't expecting to go to any less important.

-Riley

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HappyQuark
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:33 pm

negru wrote:umm you guys realize that refusing an offer does not translate to someone else getting an offer, right? Most school admit sometimes up to twice as many students that they can enroll, knowing that about half of them will decline? So unless way way more students decline the offers than expected, no one will be getting off the waitlist.


Actually, it typically does translate in more or less that fashion. Prospective students get wait-listed and eventually accepted/rejected based on the number of people that decline the offers. It's certainly not a simple queuing system of "this person dropped out, replace with this person" but accepting or declining offers absolutely does trickle down to the lower priority students.

negru
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby negru » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:05 pm

People on the waitlist won't get accepted until the number of declined offers = total offers - number of spots. And even then only if the people on the waitlist are into the same research as the ones who declined.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby WhoaNonstop » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:19 pm

negru wrote:People on the waitlist won't get accepted until the number of declined offers = total offers - number of spots. And even then only if the people on the waitlist are into the same research as the ones who declined.


I'm sorry, regardless of how you look at it, people getting an acceptance to a program while on a wait list is a function of people declining offers. You're repeating yourself again, so we're going to have to use this formula to calculate negru's total post count from here on out: Real # of Posts = Shown # of Posts / 2 - 1.

-Riley

negru
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby negru » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:38 pm

Or to put it in another way to make it more clear, people won't get accepted until declined offers + number of spots = total offers.

negru
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby negru » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:42 pm

Just to make sure you're all still with me, if
number of spots = total offers - declined offers,
then and only then will people start getting accepted off of waitlists.

Goran15
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby Goran15 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:50 pm

Did someone edit because I seem to be missing two posts?

Anyway I'll just summarize them :

bfolingprm and astrok statements were refuted using logic and/or correction of misinformation. I'm right your wrong deal with it :D

p.s. astrok - it's 5 years honey

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midwestphysics
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby midwestphysics » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:51 pm

Ugh, I missed all the fun, damn real life always getting in the way :D . However, in retrospect, Vesperlynd I think this whole thing has been one big miscommunication and I personally don't hold anything against you for starting this thread. :wink:

My personal feelings on the subject, and this is coming from someone who would be waiting behind most of you :lol: is that you earned the spot and you're free to take as much time as you want. I respect your need to think things through, and if you have come to a conclusion please decline it as quickly as you can. If not, take your time to figure it all out.

admissionprof
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby admissionprof » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:59 pm

negru wrote:Just to make sure you're all still with me, if
number of spots = total offers - declined offers,
then and only then will people start getting accepted off of waitlists.


Negru--it may surprise you to hear this, but you are completely wrong.

If we have 25 spots, we might make 50 offers, knowing that (on average) half will be declined (these aren't our numbers exactly, but the point is the same). Thus, when we first send out offers, your equation is immediately false, since 25 is not equal to 50 (and if we were immediately turned down by several people, we would go to the waitlist to add a few more).

As the season goes on, as we learn more information, we try to judge whether or not we are likely to end up above 25 or below 25. If it looks like we're going below 25, we will go to the waiting list. So it isn't a 1:1 correlation, but maybe more like a 2:1. In fact, if you are ALMOST certain you don't want to go somewhere, it wouldn't hurt to let them know your current thinking--that way you still have the offer, but they have a pretty good idea of how things are heading. But some people don't like to do that (and I fully understand that feeling)....

Medical schools are different. They make a number of offers equal to the number of spots, and then there is a 1:1 correlation. But it is a disaster for them if they go over even one or two, whereas physics departments can handle a class that is slightly bigger one year.

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HappyQuark
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:07 pm

negru wrote:Just to make sure you're all still with me, if
number of spots = total offers - declined offers,
then and only then will people start getting accepted off of waitlists.


Look, we get what your saying and we already addressed it. We acknowledge that when one person declines an offer, the bar doesn't get shifted one step towards the less desirable students and nobody argued that it is.

Could you please explain what it is you think a wait-list is if, as you are suggesting, it isn't a list of students whose acceptance is contingent on others turning down their offers?

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midwestphysics
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby midwestphysics » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:09 pm

Goran15 wrote:
bfollinprm wrote:
Though sorry, Riley (and adminprof), but I agree with midwestphysics on this one. People who have been admitted have earned that admission


Well let's address this for a second shall we? As my father used to say: "I'm white, straight, middle class, sane male. No one cares about me." And I'll just add I'm an international student. So, while I will admit that US students should have advantage (though at this rate I do predict eventual downfall of the US education system), I do not agree that being female should add +50% on your application (where are all you loud mouth neo feminists now?). Nor due I aprove of the policy that equals mine 50+ passed exams (US grad level with >80% physics, rest math) with 3 years undergrad or US system of picking what ever the hell you like (history,art?).

This is not aimed at anyone in particular just a RANT about the inequality that is life (regardless of how much you americans try to deny it).

p.s. I got plenty more where that came from if anyone's interested :D

Back to writing my thesis!



Wow, right out of left park. You got a little incoherent about halfway through there, but anyway we had big ole crazy topic on that here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3585
You can breathe life back into it if you want but that’s at your own peril. I wouldn’t recommend it, because it doesn’t really matter, all good applicants can get in somewhere and that’s all that matters.

astrok
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby astrok » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:23 pm

Goran15 wrote:p.s. astrok - it's 5 years honey


Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure you will...), but doesn't that 5 years get you a masters degree too?

Goran15
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby Goran15 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:14 pm

astrok wrote:
Goran15 wrote:p.s. astrok - it's 5 years honey


Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure you will...), but doesn't that 5 years get you a masters degree too?


It does. But it still doesn't change anything admissions wise. Or I am wrong?

What are the chances I won't have to take any classes on account I already passed them all (and then sum)? Is there a chance of my classes being credited? Admisionsprof?

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grae313
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Re: Anyone Waitlisted?

Postby grae313 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:16 pm

Goran15 wrote:It does. But it still doesn't change anything. Or I am wrong? What are the chances I won't have to take any classes on account I already passed them all (and then sum)? Is there a way of my classes being credited? Admisionsprof?



It's been asked and answered. It depends on the university, but most aren't interested in making you repeat classes if you already know the information. They know how international programs work, and the international "first years" that enter a US program aren't in the same set of classes as the American first years.




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