Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

kolahalb
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:09 pm

Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby kolahalb » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:42 am

Hello everyone, this year I am going to apply in some grad schools. Recently, I have written a paper on a pretty elementary topic (on image problems occurring in electrostatics, magnetostatics etc). I think it has been a nice one because I proposed a way to "derive" the essential parameters--the value of the image charge and its distance. I sent this to A.J.P. before taking PGRE and awaiting their responses. I am not sure if they will accept it before the application deadlines.
The reason I am saying this is that I am not being sure if I should include the above information (kind of self-research) in my CV or personal statement because it has not been accepted yet. Also I am not sure if I will send the printed version of the write up along with the paper copies of my transcripts (i.e. with application, material) with the hope that they are going to take a look at it. Can you give some suggestions?

-Kolahal

badphysicist
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby badphysicist » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:58 am

Just state that you've submitted a paper to AJP. They faculty will know that it takes a while to get a paper accepted but the fact that you've submitted on is a big plus that you don't want to omit. I won't comment on sending a copy of the paper because I don't know how they would take it.

CarlBrannen
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 11:34 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby CarlBrannen » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:17 am

kolahalb wrote:The reason I am saying this is that I am not being sure if I should include the above information (kind of self-research) in my CV or personal statement because it has not been accepted yet. Also I am not sure if I will send the printed version of the write up along with the paper copies of my transcripts (i.e. with application, material) with the hope that they are going to take a look at it. Can you give some suggestions?-Kolahal


I'm not sure of the procedure at AJP, but at most journals a paper goes through a sequence of stages and the author has an idea what stage it's in. You should describe what stage your paper has reached, I think. For example, if it's been sent out for review you should say "under review at AJP" rather than "submitted to AJP". Better would be "under review at AJP since June 2010". The reason for wording it this way is to make it clear that the editor didn't reject your paper immediately upon receipt.

And include a web link to the paper in your submission. There are plenty of places of storing it on the web, (perhaps you have a website of your own). If not, find a friend who has a website.

kolahalb
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:09 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby kolahalb » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:07 am

The point is that it was a kind of self research and unfortunately I did not know how far it would go when I started working with this well-known problem. After some of the work I sent it to A.J.P. couple of months back and after 2 weeks they replied that the notion is not clear and there is a flaw in a treatment...

It took some time to me to understand where the flaw was and subsequently I found a much more profound way of getting around it. Also this time I talked to more people and they suggested the present treatment is strong. Apparently, they did not find any flaw in it...I also checked that the method is consistent with the solution of "semi-infinite dielectric plane image problem" (done in the usual way in Jackson p-156) which made me more confident about the validity of the method.

Therefore, I made the necessary changes and sent it to them on 31st October...That is under review of course and I am not sure when they will send me the report of the review.

Regrading storing the paper in a website: I have a blog...but that I started for QM only and never written anything except QM in that...Also isn't it unsafe to upload the pdf copy to a general website? I heard somewhere that one can upload one's paper in Arxive in a safe way even if it is not published for they offer strong security...However, I never tried it myself and in the past few months I was terribly busy in working out the steps that were found to be flawed.

I am considering the option of sending the paper copies because I think only reading those few sentences in the SoP might not convince the faculties. Actually, I used a principle that is not widely used in electrostatics (no books mention that)...They may not understand what exactly I did unless they see the proof of the principle and see how that works...

Should I mention that I submitted it few months back or should I say that I submitted it on 31st Oct?

-Kolahal

admissionprof
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby admissionprof » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:09 am

kolahalb wrote:The point is that it was a kind of self research and unfortunately I did not know how far it would go when I started working with this well-known problem. After some of the work I sent it to A.J.P. couple of months back and after 2 weeks they replied that the notion is not clear and there is a flaw in a treatment...

It took some time to me to understand where the flaw was and subsequently I found a much more profound way of getting around it. Also this time I talked to more people and they suggested the present treatment is strong. Apparently, they did not find any flaw in it...I also checked that the method is consistent with the solution of "semi-infinite dielectric plane image problem" (done in the usual way in Jackson p-156) which made me more confident about the validity of the method.

Therefore, I made the necessary changes and sent it to them on 31st October...That is under review of course and I am not sure when they will send me the report of the review.

Regrading storing the paper in a website: I have a blog...but that I started for QM only and never written anything except QM in that...Also isn't it unsafe to upload the pdf copy to a general website? I heard somewhere that one can upload one's paper in Arxive in a safe way even if it is not published for they offer strong security...However, I never tried it myself and in the past few months I was terribly busy in working out the steps that were found to be flawed.

I am considering the option of sending the paper copies because I think only reading those few sentences in the SoP might not convince the faculties. Actually, I used a principle that is not widely used in electrostatics (no books mention that)...They may not understand what exactly I did unless they see the proof of the principle and see how that works...

Should I mention that I submitted it few months back or should I say that I submitted it on 31st Oct?

-Kolahal



I would mention it briefly but don't dwell on it. Virtually every paper submitted to any journal in physics is also submitted to the arxiv. I have no idea what you mean by "security"--you upload the paper, period. What is the issue? The reality is that most papers submitted to AJP are rejected, and committees aren't going to be enormously impressed unless it is accepted. If I were you, I'd put it on the Arxiv NOW, and don't bother mentioning when you submitted it--the arXiv number makes that clear. Later, if it's accepted, you can update your application.

kolahalb
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:09 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby kolahalb » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:22 am

@admissionprof: Dear Sir, thank you very much for the information. I am putting it into the Arxiv...Is it possible for the author to make any change to it once it is put to Arxiv? (anyway, probably I will find it in Arxiv only...I have never tried that).

CarlBrannen
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 11:34 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby CarlBrannen » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:30 pm

admissionprof wrote:If I were you, I'd put it on the Arxiv NOW, and don't bother mentioning when you submitted it--the arXiv number makes that clear. Later, if it's accepted, you can update your application.


Arxiv rejects my papers until after they've been accepted for publication through peer review. It's been most annoying. It's now happened 3 times. Their moderators do not actually read your paper; they're too busy, have too many papers coming and and do not have the expertise. Instead they look at the author and institution and react emotionally. Part of the reason for going to grad school is so that they'll have to treat me better.

Let me explain the process completely. To submit a paper to arXiv you have to get yourself (not the paper necessarily) "endorsed". Then you can submit papers, but their moderators can still eliminate it. And it is at the moderation stage that they remove my papers. They send you a moronic comment, i.e.:

Tue, August 10, 2010 12:15:09 PM
arXiv: submit/0088719 removed
...
From:
Jake Weiskoff [www-admin] <www-admin@arxiv.org>
...
Add to Contacts
To: carl@brannenworks.com
Your submission has been removed upon a notice from our moderators, who determined it inappropriate for arXiv. Please send to a conventional journal instead for the requisite feedback.


Then you send them an email asking them to reconsider and pointing out that since the article is "under review" it has therefore been determined by an editor of a peer reviewed journal that the article is suitable for review for publication in a physics journal (and therefore clearly suitable for a preprint server). They either ignore your email completely, or wait a couple weeks and reply that "they will reconsider if the paper is accepted", but that you have to get permission from them to upload it.

Later, when your paper is accepted, you send them an email noting that the paper has been accepted and asking for permission to send it to arXiv again. They ignore this email. A month goes by and you eventually decide to simply submit the paper over again, but with the DOI (which points to the journal) included so it is clear that the paper was accepted. At this stage, they leave your paper on arXiv.

Example:

My paper "Spin Path Integrals and Generations" is dated on arXiv "16 June 2010":
http://arxiv.org/abs/1006.3114

Foundations of Physics received it on August 4, 2009 and accepted it on May 12, 2010:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u25815hk81633596/

The paper gives a formula for the neutrino masses. That formula is referenced on arXiv years before I was able to load a paper deriving it. For example, here's a 2006 arXiv paper which cites (in the abstract) the same formula that took me 4 years to get published on arXiv:
Abstract: Brannen has recently pointed out that the observed charged lepton masses satisfy the relation m_e +m_\mu +m_\tau = {2/3} (\sqrt{m_e}+\sqrt{m_\mu}+\sqrt{m_\tau})^2, while the observed neutrino masses satisfy the relation m_{\nu 1} +m_{\nu 2} +m_{\nu 3} = {2/3} (-\sqrt{m_{\nu 1}}+\sqrt{m_{\nu 2}}+\sqrt{m_{\nu 3}})^2. It is discussed what neutrino Yukawa interaction form is favorable if we take the fact pointed out by Brannen seriously.

http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0605074

But you may have better luck with arXiv than I've had. Again, I think my problems with those ***-bites will melt away when I'm a grad student at a top institution. They don't actually read your paper.

admissionprof
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby admissionprof » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:44 pm

CarlBrannen---I'm sorry you've had trouble with the arXiv (and I'm a little surprised). Of course, they need some sort of moderators, or else hundreds of crackpots would overwhelm the system. But any system of moderators is going to screw up and reject perfectly legitimate papers. I think that any paper from a non .edu (or national lab) address gets very special scrutiny, and since kolahalb seems to be at a university, that won't be a problem. Saying "submitted to AJP" in the comment field will help. But kolahalb university almost certainly has plenty of faculty who can endorse the paper.

But I've even heard about your formula (probably from the later abstract that you cited), so it shouldn't have been rejected. I'm a bit puzzled.

kolahalb
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:09 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby kolahalb » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:06 am

Hi, actually I have got two papers; one of them has been accepted in Physics Education Journal (Indian Association of Physics Teachers)...This one is going to be printed this week. The other one I have submitted to A.J.P. are we supposed to write these details when submitting to arXiv? They had an entry that if the paper is already published (notice that the first one is not published in the true sense of the term yet), then to give the proper details...I have not mentioned these...I also did not realize they also select among these preprints...Anyway,it seems I must edit in the comments section right now.

kolahalb
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:09 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby kolahalb » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:58 am

@ admissionprof: Dear Sir, can you please let me know what did you mean by endorsement by a faculty? I have shown my article to Profs here but never mentioned that in the article...What time typically they take to get back to the author of the paper?

In btw: I updated the Metadata section properly

admissionprof
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby admissionprof » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:07 am

kolahalb wrote:@ admissionprof: Dear Sir, can you please let me know what did you mean by endorsement by a faculty? I have shown my article to Profs here but never mentioned that in the article...What time typically they take to get back to the author of the paper?

In btw: I updated the Metadata section properly



http://arxiv.org/help/endorsement

palitre
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:31 am

Re: Mentioning about unpublished paper in application

Postby palitre » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:57 am

Certainly you should. the same case was with my neighbour and he didn't mention about it, but later he knew that it was better to do it..but it was too late((




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