Can I omit a university from my record

ofey
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Can I omit a university from my record

Postby ofey » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:12 am

I took at class at a University over the summer and ended up going there for this semester. About a month ago I realized I wasn't going to be happy there because the major I was taking there isn't for me and what they focus on at that school isn't my interest.

None of the classes I am taking would count for anything toward my physics degree which I am going to commence on next semester. They were all courses in the engineering major I was taking there.

I was thinking that maybe I would just entirely withdraw from the university. It would also save me on commuting and gas money since the school is almost an hour away. I also want to spend the next few months getting a head start of my physics courses for next semester. I don't really think there is any reason to carry around my record from the school I am at now since I will have only complete one entirely unrelated summer class there. And I'd rather not have to constantly explain why I withdrew.

So can I just omit the record from that school from any future application for graduate school or an REU?

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby WhoaNonstop » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:51 am

I have a similar difficulty. I went to a different University for a semester on exchange to investigate engineering and did horribly (2.13 GPA). However, when returning to my home University, I needed to transfer a few classes from that school (Ones I didn't do so horribly in). Unfortunately, these transfer credits now show up in my transcript and I am left with the debate of sending this bad transcript. What I decided to do was to not hide this from an application committee. Although it could hurt my application, I assume it will be fairly negligible. However, if I didn't send this transcript and they noticed it was missing or that it was needed, my application is in peril of being rejected. Here is what I suggest to you: If you feel there is any indication that the application committee might know about this situation, just include it in your record. For example, if one of your recommendation letters mentioned you trying another school or your transcript shows a transfer from that school. However, if it is completely unlinked to your Physics degree, I would not worry about it. If I didn't have to transfer courses from the one school I would never send out the transcript from it (for one reason it costs me money). However I feel it is necessary, since it does show up somewhere.

-Riley

ofey
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby ofey » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:10 pm

Interesting, yea I mean I took one course and got an A in the summer. But the course isn't relevant to physics and I won't get anything out of sending the transcript to my university where I am taking my physics degree. I'm not sure why any admissions committee would even care to see that I did for one semester. I mean I can write up a small explanation and explain why I withdrew even though i was doing fine in the courses, namely to save money and study physics. The thing is I don't want to complicate my application any more than it already is. I feel like having too "explain" too many thing will be looked at as a negative.

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HappyQuark
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby HappyQuark » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:47 pm

It's always been my understanding that your best option is always to be straight forward. Hiding anything from the admissions committee, despite how relevant you may think it is, may come off as deceptive and will always be more damaging if they discover it than it ever could have been on its own. Your specific example sounds very minor and could easily be addressed in your SOP, so I would mention it there and try to spin it in a positive light.
Last edited by HappyQuark on Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby WhoaNonstop » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:14 pm

I will be putting a positive spin on my situation, so it may be helpful, although I doubt it will help much. I stand my ground on the issue though. If the courses you are taking at this university are not relevant to the physics degree, I wouldn't inform them of it. You'll notice on most applications, you are told to fill out "schools you will or have received a degree". The application process becomes a pain in the ass when you have to list other schools, especially ones you aren't receiving a degree from. I also feel that it may confuse the selection process, especially if they never read through your statement to understand why that "weird bump" is there. Also, the cost of sending these transcripts can add up. I will be spending $100 just sending transcripts from a school I went to for 1 semester (even though the transfer credits are listed on my original transcript). I know many people may frown at this, but I highly doubt an application committee will care to research that much into your life.

-Riley

ofey
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby ofey » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:18 pm

I tend to agree to omit it. Thing is this isn't the only other school I went to. I screwed up my first time in college(thankfully because I won't have realized how much I like science otherwise). I spent the interim taking a few classes here and there in programming at a community college. I transfered these into my physics university so I probably have to include them now. Even though they have nothing to do with my physics background. Let's just say ordering 20 or so transcripts from 6 different universities and colleges is going to be a real pain in the a**.

I'm not really worried about my first time in college, when I got F's and Ds and such- because it was 6 years ago and is kind of irrelevant to what I did afterwards. However, I feel like by now I am supposed to have been more "mature" and not have an aberrant semester. Granted I did learn that I would not be happy in engineering which is useful knowledge for me and affirmed that physics is what I must do.

laser
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby laser » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:03 pm

I agree with omitting it. If it was just a few courses, and has nothing to do with your degree, then there is no reason to include it. I'm in a similar situation, I took several community college classes for fun, for example, while I was out of school for a while. No one is going to care that I took one latin class at a particular CC and got an A. So what if I took a few drafting classes to keep my skills strong. So if it doesn't count towards your degree, no need to include it. Also, what Riley said. I have a bunch of engineering courses on a transcript from my previous attempt at college, and since some of those courses are being used to fulfill requirements at my current school (like psychology as an elective, for example) then the schools I'm applying to will see the whole transcript. I did check with a few professors, and they all seem to agree, you only need to send transcripts for schools that have credits that you are using towards your degree.

admissionprof
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby admissionprof » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:06 am

Include it. The admissions committee won't care much (and you can add a couple of sentences in your SOP if you'd like). But often the application asks you to include ALL transcripts from universities you attended, and thus not including it is technically falsifying an application. We wouldn't care about a few courses elsewhere, but if we found out that you falsified your application in any way, you'd be toast.

So the course you took on "Sexual Deviancy" at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles should be included. We once had a student with a similar course. It had a lab component and they got a D. We accepted them immediately :P

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby WhoaNonstop » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:26 pm

admissionprof wrote:Include it. The admissions committee won't care much (and you can add a couple of sentences in your SOP if you'd like). But often the application asks you to include ALL transcripts from universities you attended, and thus not including it is technically falsifying an application. We wouldn't care about a few courses elsewhere, but if we found out that you falsified your application in any way, you'd be toast.

So the course you took on "Sexual Deviancy" at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles should be included. We once had a student with a similar course. It had a lab component and they got a D. We accepted them immediately :P


I'm glad to hear that minor flaws like this won't hurt. My mind has been kicking itself for my one "National Exchange Semester" as a sophmore where I had a GPA of 2.13. The rest of my GPA is nearly flawless and my mind can't get over the fact that this 2.13 is going to look like a huge bump in my application. However, I'm still surprised at including everything. For example, I have 1 credit from a community college where you could take a course 1 credit at a time for Calculus III. I took 1 credit and received an A in it. However, I decided to take the full course of Calculus III (5 credits) at my University because let's be honest, the Community College course was a joke. Do you truly think I should go through the difficulty of sending this transcript with all my applications? I think it's unrealistic to do so. I think it's also unfair to say if a University was to find out about not including this transcript of 1 credit, it would be lines for not getting in. What is your sincere feeling on that admissionprof? I really would like to avoid the hassle of rounding up this transcript, but if you truly feel it is necessary, maybe I should.

-Riley

admissionprof
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby admissionprof » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:57 pm

WhoaNonstop wrote:
admissionprof wrote:Include it. The admissions committee won't care much (and you can add a couple of sentences in your SOP if you'd like). But often the application asks you to include ALL transcripts from universities you attended, and thus not including it is technically falsifying an application. We wouldn't care about a few courses elsewhere, but if we found out that you falsified your application in any way, you'd be toast.

So the course you took on "Sexual Deviancy" at the Bible Institute of Los Angeles should be included. We once had a student with a similar course. It had a lab component and they got a D. We accepted them immediately :P


I'm glad to hear that minor flaws like this won't hurt. My mind has been kicking itself for my one "National Exchange Semester" as a sophmore where I had a GPA of 2.13. The rest of my GPA is nearly flawless and my mind can't get over the fact that this 2.13 is going to look like a huge bump in my application. However, I'm still surprised at including everything. For example, I have 1 credit from a community college where you could take a course 1 credit at a time for Calculus III. I took 1 credit and received an A in it. However, I decided to take the full course of Calculus III (5 credits) at my University because let's be honest, the Community College course was a joke. Do you truly think I should go through the difficulty of sending this transcript with all my applications? I think it's unrealistic to do so. I think it's also unfair to say if a University was to find out about not including this transcript of 1 credit, it would be lines for not getting in. What is your sincere feeling on that admissionprof? I really would like to avoid the hassle of rounding up this transcript, but if you truly feel it is necessary, maybe I should.

-Riley


Well, it depends on what the precise wording of the application says. If it really does say "all universities", then it should be included. But you can avoid the trouble by including a note mentioning the course. Alternatively, ignore it, but once you've been accepted, and you know where you are going, mention that you'd forgotten this one community college course, and do they really need it? I personally wouldn't worry about a case like that. Many students take courses while in high school -- same thing. I think the real worry is someone who flunks out of a place, then starts over somewhere else and pretends that it never happened. We should know about that.

Your 2.13 semester, for example, absolutely must be included. But our admissions committee wouldn't worry about it. You were only a sophomore (which is latin for "wise fool"), and we really look much more closely at upper level physics/math courses and the last two years.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby WhoaNonstop » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:37 pm

I have read the applications carefully in each case. However, for Princeton's Application it says this:

"Please complete an entry for up to three colleges or universities you have earned or expect to receive a degree. Use the search button to search for each school. If your school is not in the list, you will be returned to this page to fill in the school information.
You will also be required to upload a transcript from these schools."

Do I include my exchange semester at Minnesota since I am not earning or expecting to receive a degree from there?

-Riley

CarlBrannen
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby CarlBrannen » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:58 pm

Not only that, but it says "up to three", implying that if you earned more degrees than that you should keep it to yourself. (Too much information.)

admissionprof
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby admissionprof » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:51 pm

WhoaNonstop wrote:I have read the applications carefully in each case. However, for Princeton's Application it says this:

"Please complete an entry for up to three colleges or universities you have earned or expect to receive a degree. Use the search button to search for each school. If your school is not in the list, you will be returned to this page to fill in the school information.
You will also be required to upload a transcript from these schools."

Do I include my exchange semester at Minnesota since I am not earning or expecting to receive a degree from there?

-Riley


Obviously not, since you didn't earn a degree. Actually, I like this application format....

backONit
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby backONit » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:16 pm

How would they even know if you omit a university for which no transfer credits are applied to your current university? Is it even possible for them to find out?

The reason I ask is because I'm in a similar situation. I just returned to college after about 7-8 years off. I didn't flunk out of my last university, in fact I did pretty well (3.7). However, there were a couple semesters where I just stopped caring about school and I even have a couple F's and C's on my transcript from there (the rest all A's).

But now I live in a different state where the public university is very respectable. I have the time and am ready to focus 100% of my energy on physics. I'm trying to decide whether I should bring transfer credits or just start from the beginning. It would only take me one extra year if I decide to start fresh (I used to neglect core classes), and I'd rather start fresh anyway. I know that a 3.7 from my last university is perfectly fine, however the first school had grade replacement which made my couple random F's inconsequential. I plan to apply to all the top graduate schools, and while my previous record isn't horrible, it certainly won't HELP my chances with the admission committees at the elite schools. It can only hurt, in my opinion. And I'd much rather only have to explain why I started late, rather than explaining why I left, what I've been doing since, and why I came back.

I simply want to maximize the chance that I will have the ability to go to wherever I want. So I'm hoping to just omit my first school. While my current university does have my old transcript on file, I have yet to receive any transfer credits, and am hoping they won't force me to bring credits. If they do, then oh well, my plan is shot ;) But if they don't, it will never show on my future transcript. So why should I even bother having to explain my past? Yeah, it's dishonest... but I can live with that :o

There's really no way they could find out, is there?

admissionprof
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby admissionprof » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:14 am

backONit wrote: But if they don't, it will never show on my future transcript. So why should I even bother having to explain my past? Yeah, it's dishonest... but I can live with that :o

There's really no way they could find out, is there?


Well, if you can live with dishonesty, they PROBABLY won't find out. As long as you aren't too successful. If you can live the rest of your life knowing that if they did find out, your degree would likely be rescinded, you can take the chance. But if you end up being very successful, people will check backgrounds. And don't EVER apply for a security clearance.

t2kburl
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby t2kburl » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:32 am

backONit wrote:How would they even know if you omit a university for which no transfer credits are applied to your current university? Is it even possible for them to find out?

The reason I ask is because I'm in a similar situation. I just returned to college after about 7-8 years off. I didn't flunk out of my last university, in fact I did pretty well (3.7). However, there were a couple semesters where I just stopped caring about school and I even have a couple F's and C's on my transcript from there (the rest all A's).

But now I live in a different state where the public university is very respectable. I have the time and am ready to focus 100% of my energy on physics. I'm trying to decide whether I should bring transfer credits or just start from the beginning. It would only take me one extra year if I decide to start fresh (I used to neglect core classes), and I'd rather start fresh anyway. I know that a 3.7 from my last university is perfectly fine, however the first school had grade replacement which made my couple random F's inconsequential. I plan to apply to all the top graduate schools, and while my previous record isn't horrible, it certainly won't HELP my chances with the admission committees at the elite schools. It can only hurt, in my opinion. And I'd much rather only have to explain why I started late, rather than explaining why I left, what I've been doing since, and why I came back.

I simply want to maximize the chance that I will have the ability to go to wherever I want. So I'm hoping to just omit my first school. While my current university does have my old transcript on file, I have yet to receive any transfer credits, and am hoping they won't force me to bring credits. If they do, then oh well, my plan is shot ;) But if they don't, it will never show on my future transcript. So why should I even bother having to explain my past? Yeah, it's dishonest... but I can live with that :o

There's really no way they could find out, is there?


Don't leave anything they ask for out of your application.

Whatever happened several years ago is much less relevant than your current material. Young people make mistakes in life. Most learn from them and move on. The fact that you got it together and are finishing your degree, despite whatever happened previously, shows you can overcome adversity. I have heard that is a key characteristic they look for.

But, ultimately, you are responsible for your choices. Trying to hide your past is a bad idea. Be accountable for it. Stand tall and proud and say, "Yes, I screwed up, and I'm not going to do that again!", and it could gain you a lot of points.

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WhoaNonstop
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby WhoaNonstop » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:55 am

t2kburl wrote:Trying to hide your past is a bad idea.


Unless you create a time machine.

-Riley

backONit
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby backONit » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:43 am

obviously very prudent advice indeed.

but, this is an honest question that i would like your opinion on: would they really rescind a theorist's degree for "forgetting" to include a college that was attended nearly a decade before your first bachelor's? especially since we're presuming that the individual is relatively successful, which would tend to mean that their results are important, right? so what's more important to supposedly logical people (physicists): contribution to science, or slicing someone's head off for "forgetting" to include a college that was attended looooongg ago? .... i could understand if the person was an experimentalist, but integrity can't really affect a theorist's results, unless he's trying to pull a tony soprano on the peer reviewers or something like that ;)

don't get me wrong, ultimately i definitely agree with you (even before you posted). i would still like to start fresh without bringing credits.. but that's beside the point. it's more about my general education than just physics....put it this way, i like this school A LOT and would much rather have the full experience than the transfer experience.

backONit
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby backONit » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:46 am

t2kburl wrote:
Don't leave anything they ask for out of your application.

Whatever happened several years ago is much less relevant than your current material. Young people make mistakes in life. Most learn from them and move on. The fact that you got it together and are finishing your degree, despite whatever happened previously, shows you can overcome adversity. I have heard that is a key characteristic they look for.

But, ultimately, you are responsible for your choices. Trying to hide your past is a bad idea. Be accountable for it. Stand tall and proud and say, "Yes, I screwed up, and I'm not going to do that again!", and it could gain you a lot of points.



well said

CarlBrannen
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby CarlBrannen » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:23 am

Hmmm.

If you end up having your degree revoked because you didn't list a school that you attended some long time ago it is possible that they could revoke your degree. But I can't find any example of this. The examples I've found for degree revoking typically are plagiarism and occasionally someone pays a professor for credits not earned. A common cause is for murdering someone, especially if they're in academia. So keep that gun in your pocket, do your own work, and avoid paying for credits and you're probably okay.

If you're interested, here are some legal references:

... Degree revocation is an extreme measure rarely seen in higher education. Despite that fact, the courts have addressed the issue and have provided guidance to an institution faced with a situation in which revocation may be an appropriate action. It is well established that a university has the inherent authority to revoke a degree upon good cause, such as for fraud, academic misconduct, etc. ...
http://www.uah.edu/legal/pdf_files/a_matter_of_degree.pdf

Also see:
http://justice.law.stetson.edu/excellen ... egrees.pdf

Some of the universities spell out what you have to do to get your degree revoked. University of Wyoming:

Grounds for revoking a degree include convincing evidence that the degree recipient failed to complete the requirements for the degree that were in effect at the time of the degree conferral. Included in this category is evidence that the candidate engaged in academic misconduct serious enough to negate bona fide completion of one or more substantive degree requirements.

http://www.uwyo.edu/generalcounsel/_files/docs/254.doc

It doesn't mention that you got into school based on fraud, much less something as innocuous as failing to send in a transcript for some community college you took an art class at.

Michigan Tech:
XV. Revocation of Degree. The University reserves the right to revoke an awarded degree for fraud in receipt of the degree, or for serious disciplinary violations committed by a student prior to the student’s graduation.

http://www.sa.mtu.edu/dean/judicial/pol ... 12_15.html

Similarly, see Missouri State:
http://www.missouristate.edu/registrar/acintegrity.html
Howard University:
http://www.howard.edu/policy/academic/d ... cation.htm

P.S. I'm bored. Why is January so long?

t2kburl
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby t2kburl » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:17 am

backONit wrote:
t2kburl wrote:But, ultimately, you are responsible for your choices. Trying to hide your past is a bad idea. Be accountable for it. Stand tall and proud and say, "Yes, I screwed up, and I'm not going to do that again!", and it could gain you a lot of points.



well said


Lots of practice ... 8)
I think if they gave degrees for screwing up, I'd have a Ph.D already.

Fall down.
Get up.
Move on.
Repeat.

Loads of students fall down at some point in Grad school. Many, for their first time. What counts is your ability to get up.

Pastrami
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby Pastrami » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:54 am

Here's a somewhat related question:

I took two semesters of community college classes on a part-time basis while I was a highschool senior. They're utterly irrelevant, but I transferred them for the sake of buffing out my biology minor. I would have to include this if it's part of my main University's transcript right? And does it factor in to the cumulative GPA?

I did well - I'm not trying to get out of it, but I was wondering if it would be required and be factored in grade-wise.

bfollinprm
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby bfollinprm » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:31 am

Most application instructions specifically state not to worry about schools where you took per-credit coursework and study abroad transcripts.

heather11
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Re: Can I omit a university from my record

Postby heather11 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:35 am

Good luck to you! 24hr-printer-cartridges.com




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