Long-term study strategies

X-Ray
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm

Long-term study strategies

Postby X-Ray » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:41 pm

Hi everybody.

I am 12 years (!!) out of school (B.S., Physics) and I'm rearranging my life so I can go to grad school in four years. Four years is a long way out, but I have no choice on that one! We just had a baby and I need to support the family until my wife can get back into the workforce. But I digress...

I am trying to put together the best study strategy I can that will allow me to ace this test. I want to get into a selective Applied Physics program and I'll need a high score (along with my work experience and patents) to compensate for my lackluster undergrad work. That being the case, what do you think would be the best way to take advantage of the time I have? What would be the "dream program" that would, over its four year application, allow anyone to ace this test? I am quite rusty, and would have to cover it all again. What are the best texts? Thanks for your feedback!

X-Ray

X-Ray
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm

Postby X-Ray » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:15 am

So, 30-something people have read this and nobody has any comments?
HELP!!!

Grant
site admin
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 7:55 pm

Prelude to my take on the "4 year dream program"

Postby Grant » Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:01 am

Hi X-ray,

I have been thinking about your situation but I have not formulated my thoughts well enough to put together a “4 year dream program”. I wasn’t in a hurry to respond since it is 4 years away and because I wanted (and still want) to hear advice of others.

I guess one good place to begin your preparation efforts would be to grab a good introductory undergraduate physics textbook (perhaps other people have books to suggest) and start working through the material, examples, and some problems. It probably couldn’t hurt to spend your first year or so with an introductory book as your primary resource.

Also, I was just looking at the book [isbn=0375763872]Cracking the AP Physics B & C Exam[/isbn] and thought about how you might benefit from it because it covers basic material, has loads of practice multiple choice problems and provides solutions to the problems. I think working through loads of advanced high school physics problems will be an important ingredient in the first year of the “4 year dream program” (and even the second and third and fourth years as well).

Talk to you later,
Grant

X-Ray
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm

Alrighty then....

Postby X-Ray » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:07 am

Grant -

Thanks for the reply. I have been putting together a list of texts based on research I did on Amazon.com. I simply browsed through all the sub-subject texts on general, mechanics, dynamics, quantum, etc., and read peoples' reviews. I know that this isn't foolproof, but it's a good start, I think. I don't have time now, but I'll post my list soon.

Also, I happen to have THE secret weapon: the official ETS physics test book with the three tests. I paid way too much money for it... but what the hell, right? I plan on taking one test per year starting June 2005. In 2008 I'll be taking the real one.

The bottom line though, is practice, practice, practice. I have started my prep program by reviewing my intro text (Bueche - it's o.k.) for one hour each day. Once I get used to really using my brain again I'll up my study time to two hours or more per day. Slow and steady wins the race.

X-Ray

Grant
site admin
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 7:55 pm

great idea about listing physics textbooks

Postby Grant » Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:27 pm

When you do get around to posting your list of physics textbooks then perhaps you could start a new thread in the Physics Books Forum. I would like to add any books I know of that you do not list and perhaps other students would do the same so eventually we can have a comprehensive list. Eventually, I would like build a special “physics textbooks” page on the main site that summarizes the thread. This list of books could be a great resource for people preparing for the exam, for students searching for a supplement to their class textbook, and for teachers as well.

krilvyn
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:43 am

Re: great idea about listing physics textbooks

Postby krilvyn » Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:48 am

Grant wrote:When you do get around to posting your list of physics textbooks then perhaps you could start a new thread in the Physics Books Forum. I would like to add any books I know of that you do not list and perhaps other students would do the same so eventually we can have a comprehensive list. Eventually, I would like build a special “physics textbooks” page on the main site that summarizes the thread. This list of books could be a great resource for people preparing for the exam, for students searching for a supplement to their class textbook, and for teachers as well.


This website has a large list of recommended or commonly used books: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Administrivia/booklist.html

quantumnicity
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:17 am

you've got time!

Postby quantumnicity » Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:23 pm

Hi X-ray,

you're way ahead of me, because you've at least seen all this material before in your undergraduate classes. i finished my b.a. in math & german in 1989, and now want to go back to school for physics! if it encourages you any, i've written to lots of professors and schools explaining my situation, and all of them were very positive and quite encouraging except for maybe 2 or 3. so if you've got a physics background, i'm sure you won't have any problems getting in anywhere.

maybe my study plan will be of use to you: i work through a chapter a day in the Halliday/Resnick/Krane book and then do the problems that are in the student's solutions manual, so that i can see if my answers are correct. it's not too difficult for me with a math background, so i'm sure you'd make it through the book fairly easily with your physics background. if you've got patents and other valuable experience, i'll bet they take you with no problem! i have heard from a few sources that going through a basic physics book and a text on modern physics is more than enough to answer over 50% of the questions on the exam. if you are going to wait four years to take it, i'd suggest you work through one of the introductory books first, then maybe Tipler's modern physics, electrodynamics (Griffiths), quantum mechanics (either Griffiths or Shankar), and analytical mechanics/dynamics (Marion/Thornton). you'll certainly have time to cover the material in 4 years, so i would just be consistent and go through these books, one by one, then work through practice tests.

X-Ray
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm

Postby X-Ray » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:11 am

Krilvn -

Thanks for the link! That's a HUGE list, though. I'm curious as to what people think the definitive books in each subject are. I don't want to waste too much time (and money) going about this in a trial and error fashion. But, again, thanks for the info - this is a goldmine!

quantumnicity -

Well, I wish I had your background, because math is my weakness, so to speak. I have a good intuitive feel for physics, and I am a very visual thinker so I can work around my math issues.

everybody -

What do you think about Boas' book? Are there any comparable Mathematical Methods for Physics books that complement this book?

Thanks again everyone for your help. I'm really glad I found this forum - who woulda thunk?

X-Ray

krilvyn
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:43 am

Postby krilvyn » Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:41 pm

X-Ray wrote:Krilvn -

Thanks for the link! That's a HUGE list, though. I'm curious as to what people think the definitive books in each subject are. I don't want to waste too much time (and money) going about this in a trial and error fashion. But, again, thanks for the info - this is a goldmine!


Here's what I know, others can chime in with their thoughts:

Classical Mechanics - we used Marion/Thornton in my undergrad (Georgia Tech), I did not like it at the time but it seems better now, so if you've never had class. mech. it's probably not a good first book. I think the book by Symon gets a lot better reviews on amazon.

E+M - we used Griffiths and I thought it was really good, one of the best textbooks I used. I don't really know about any of the others, and I'm not looking forward to Jackson's book in grad school...

Thermo - I actually can't remember the author of my thermo book, but for stat. mech we used "Thermal Physics" by Baierlein which had a lot of good explanations but is not too rigorous. Good for getting the concepts down though. I believe Kittel is the standard thermo book at a lot of schools.

Quantum - we used Griffiths and I didn't like it near as much as his E+M book. I've heard great stuff about Shankar and I'm planning on getting that one to do my review of quantum.

Two other textbooks that I thought were great were Modern Astrophysics by Carroll and Ostlie and Nonlinear Dynamics by Strogatz. Not for core classes and thus not useful for the GRE, but far more interesting!

For math, I'm reviewing my Diff. Eq. book (Edwards and Penney), Linear Algebra (Apostol), and I plan on getting the Boas book as well if I can find a used copy for a decent price.

cavemanzok
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:11 pm

Postby cavemanzok » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:36 pm

Hello everybody,
In response to the topic of which books are good to study from, here's what I would say:

E&M - Griffiths book is excelent. He does a great job of making a difficult subject easy to understand. The only problem is that there are not solutions for his problems, technically. You can search around though university websites to find some homework solutions to the corresponding physics class using the book, but no comprehensive solution manual.

Classical Mechanics - I also used Marion and Thornton which was decent. It doesn't do as good of a job simplifying the subject matter and Griffiths but it gives a very comprehensive background on classical mechanics which I've heard is the subject that is tested most intesively. So a little more rigorous book might be useful in this case.

Quantum mechanics - I'm not sure exactly which book people mean when they refer to Shankar. I used the Second Edition of "Principles of Quantum Mechanics" which I found to be way too intesive for the GRE. I would not recomend that people waste their time studying this book. I know that there is another Shankar book though which I have no experience with. The only alternate text I would recomend for quantum, would oddly enough be Griffiths Introductory to Elementary Particles. There is a great chapter in there that completely summarizes quantum mechanics in an easy to understand fashion. You can also read through a bit of particle physics stuff if interested.

I'd say these three subjects are the only ones that I'd give particular detailed attention to. A general physics text like Halliday and Resnik should suffice for all other subject material.

POTENTIAL IDEA
One problem with practicing problems in texts is that a lot of them do not offer solutions because they are still being used for classes. However, a lot of students have taken these classes and have a significant amount of solutions to problems that professors deem useful. Maybe we could start a forum were people could list homework solutions they have. Then we could either email them if we have them in electronic form, or xerox and trade or sell or something. I'm also not sure what the rules are regaurding xeroxing and reselling the ETS book with the three tests but I would be willing to copy the book and sell it to someone for much less than what I've heard some people pay for it.

Grant
site admin
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Postby Grant » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:13 pm

I was too excited to wait any longer so I started a physics textbooks thread. Hopefully we can build a great list of physics textbooks.

Feel free to continue with this thread and discuss physics textbooks and other things that can help with "Long-term study strategies".

Capook
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:07 pm

Postby Capook » Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:49 pm

I don't think you should even think about upper division textbooks until you have worked your way through the entirety of a good solid freshman physics textbook. First of all, this will prepare you for at *least* three quarters of the test questions. Another 10% are gonna be specialized questions that you'll miss no matter how much you study from books (these are designed to reward physics majors who have taken advanced classes, done advanced research, or just generally spent all their time reading about 'real' physics). That leaves 15% for quantum mechanics and the occasional question you'd need advanced EM or classical mechanics to answer. I think your best plan is to forget about this 15% for the time being and just see how you do with a nice fat intro book. In a couple years, if you've made it through a good intro book, then maybe give some quantum a shot and cover lagrangian dynamics... but I think that doing much more advanced work would be a complete waste of time in your situation. Doing it now certainly would be--without a good working grasp of the fundamentals you'd be banging your head against the wall with e.g. marion and thorton anyway.

That said in such an authoratative tone, I haven't taken the GRE and I'm only just starting to prepare. So the experts should correct me if I'm wrong about the content of the text.

X-Ray
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm

Postby X-Ray » Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:32 pm

Capook -

Thanks for your comments. I agree that in order to do this right the "foundation" needs to be shored up before more advanced work can be done. This entails thorough review of an intro text, and I think I'll go with the new Halliday et al. w/ the solutions manual. Once I've satisfactorily covered the entirety of this text I'll spend some time on Mechanics, E&M, Quantum, Thermo, Modern, Optics, and Relativity. In these areas I'll review at the level I was at as a sophomore / senior and try not to get too carried away. Also, a good review of math (I'm thinking Boas) won't hurt.

It's not all about the GRE: if I'm going to Grad School I need to scrape the rust off the gears or I'm screwed.

New question - this is going to sound ridiculous, but has anyone used flash cards to memorize equations, how to set up various problems, physical constants, etc.? There are recurring entities (such as those I just listed) that need to be used again and again in solving all sorts of Physics problems and therefore should be immediately accessible, especially in a timed test environment. What do you think?

Also, I have a bit of a commute (1.5 [h] X 2) and I'd like to make recordings of myself explaining various concepts in language that I understand that I can listen to in the car. I've done this with great success in the past, but only in subjects such as History (gag!). I'm not so sure I can do this as effectively with Physics. Any comments?

Once again, thanks everybody for your input - this forum (and its members) is a goldmine! I'll try to reciprocate whenever possible...

X-Ray

Grant
site admin
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physics with audio

Postby Grant » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:45 pm

I'd like to make recordings of myself explaining various concepts

I like your idea of using audio to help you prepare while doing things like driving or riding an exercise bike. I agree that recordings won’t be as helpful in physics as they would be in history but there are certainly many things you could make recordings of to help you memorize certain things (i.e. summarize important aspects of the famous experiments, summarize certain results of orbital motion like the ranges of energy and eccentricity for elliptical, circular, parabolic, and hyperbolic orbits) It might be interesting to make a list of all the topics that lend themselves reasonably to being verbally summarized.

Because of your post I decided to search on amazon.com to see if there are any educational physics resources on audio. I didn’t find very much except one thing I found seems pretty exciting . . . the Feynman lectures in physics on audio. I haven’t researched this very much but I imagine there can be some value in listening to them while driving (be careful though and don’t let your mind race around too much). Of course, it would probably be best to be listening to the lectures while following along in the book but I am sure some of Feynman’s insight can sink in while driving on your commute (or riding an exercise bike or running or whatever).

has anyone used flash cards to memorize equations

I have never really been into using flashcards to memorize things for physics. I find it more helpful to use the equations, constants, and concepts repetitively by solving lots of problems. I usually write a bunch of things on a sheet of paper and then use the sheet only if necessary. Occasionally I try to rewrite all the equations from memory (i.e. list all the types equations you should know like "Maxwell's equations", "constant acceleration kinematics equations" etc. and then just write them down from memory every once in a while). Also, working through the derivation of an equation is a great way to memorize it and it also helps you understand how to use it better. Note: I wouldn’t plan to waste any time deriving equations on the day of the exam. Anyway, i suppose that the same types material that work nicely with audio would also work nicely with flashcards but I just never had the discipline to make flashcards.

X-Ray
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm

Postby X-Ray » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:03 pm

Capook -

I'll be in touch, though not via AOL IM - our IT Admin. would get all ugly on me if I tried to *defile* his system w/ AOL!

The thing about getting older is that it becomes relatively easy to put together the puzzle, simply because you have so many more pieces. It's the lucky and the few who discover their true calling early in life. And remember, people change, so what might be the perfect job when you are 20 could be torturous when you're 30 or 40. The key, I think, is to project forward and try to think through what effect your current situation might have on your future situation. Always try to do what interests you at the moment, but try to think ahead and anticipate what you might be looking for in the future - this way you can make little decisions on a daily basis that will lead you naturally to where you want to be.

That being said, there are many unpredictable life instances that will affect you as well. The recent birth of my daughter had a dramatic reorienting effect on me that I did not anticipate. Some recurring thoughts that had been running through my head for years suddenly precipitated out of solution, you could say, to help me understand what I wanted to be doing at this point in my life. Things like "Do something to help people, don't work hard just to make your boss rich", and "Gee, wouldn't it be great to combine what I'm good at with what I do for a living", and "Wow, New Haven is right in my back yard and Biotech and Medicine are starting to boom here", and "There are a lot of Baby Boomers getting old who will create a huge growth spurt in the medical industry", etc., etc., were floating around in my head. Wanting to make a career shift has been obvious to me for a few years, but to what has been the question. Now I know.

Don't worry - you'll figure it all out as you go... we "physics people" are smart, right?! :wink:

Grant -

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that there are limitations as to what subjects or information will work well with audio review. For me, it will be most helpful to review, ad nauseam, the organizing principles and the common themes of physics so I can create a complete web of knowledge where every subject has a "location", but also has corresponding ties to related areas. Personally, I need to understand things in terms of the big picture.

Flash cards, I'm thinking, would be helpful for memorizing the "recipes" to solving common types of problems. I agree that repetitive problem solving is the only way to really retain this skill, but I know that unless I keep myself exposed to a subject I start to lose it. So, as I move on to hardcore problems in the next subject, I review the previous subjects via flash cards. ALSO, I am starting to put sub-classifications on the cards so I can group them in various ways: by subject, by difficulty, by the math used, etc. This will help me put things into the context of the big picture again.

Thanks again, guys. Until later.

X-Ray

janeway
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Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:11 pm

Warning ABout Long Term Plans

Postby janeway » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:04 pm

Dear X-Ray- PLEASE READ!-

The number one advice for your plan I can give you is consistency. I knew for four or more years that I would want to go back to grad school when my military time expired, and I knew I wanted to get into astrophysics. I bought the Serway Physics book quite a while back, and have since restarted it probably 4 times in 4 years. Also, I restarted my "calculus" review a number of times. I felt it necessary to restart because each time I would make some decent progress, but I kept getting derailed before I got into any heavy material, so I would re-review stuff to freshen up. I also wanted to "master" each subject- something I felt we never had time to do in college. This approach has proved disastrous for me. For one thing, it would've been better if I just picked up where I left off each time. I would've made way more forward progress. Secondly, sometimes you master some subjects in retrospect- like some dynamics problems become clearer after you learn the kinematics approach for example. Lastly, if life pulls you away from your book for more than five days, you are in extreme jeopardy of wasting your previous mental efforts.
I too built myself this glorious plan. I went to my school's Physics website and planned to review each physics course on my own through their 4 year program, and to more or less use the recommended textbooks (I used Amazon.com's user reviews which are great to pick the best self-study textbooks- last thing you want is a book with probs and no answers). My plan seemed terrific, but it ultimately failed because I had too much other stuff going on in my life and felt I had time to procrastinate. Now I am out of time and out of luck. Pick one subject, one book, and cross it one bridge at a time. I tried to build a long term plan based on # of pages per textbook per subject, and it did not work.

I hope you can stick to your program! Make it a priority for yourself every day squeeze in some time at least three to five days a week!

Best of luck,
Janeway.

X-Ray
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23 pm

Postby X-Ray » Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:11 pm

Janeway -

WORDS OF WISDOM!!! I want to print out your comment and staple it to my wall because I can see myself doing the exact same thing if I'm not careful!

Making a "habit" of studying a little bit each day, every day, is the way to go. It is so easy to get distracted and blow it off when it gets difficult or confusing.

I VOW TO STUDY EVERY DAY FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS. *even if it's just a little bit*

Whew! I feel better now. Gotta go study. Ciao.

X-Ray

yongbin99
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:46 pm

Awesome resource for studying physics (or anything else...)

Postby yongbin99 » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:10 pm

I am new to this forum, but I had to respond because I am in precisely the same boat as you X-ray. I too am long out of school and lately have a very strong desire to get back to my first love, physics. I have been in programming for most of that time, but my work unfortunately rarely involves much in the way of math or physical reasoning. The reason I had to respond was not just to inform you that you're not alone, but also to tell you about an incredible resource I found online. MIT has got to be, hands down, the greatest school on the planet. They are putting all of their curricula up on the web for anyone with an internet connection to use: http://ocw.mit.edu. They even have streaming video lectures for their basic physics, linear algebra, and diff eq classes. I discovered this site a couple of years ago when they started this initiative, and they have been adding classes ever since; I think they're up to around 1,000 classes now. I have worked my way through the freshman and sophomore classes, and I think I'll be more than prepared to take the GRE next year, which is when I plan to take it. I have modeled my review around their required courses which can be found here: http://web.mit.edu/physics/undergrad/majors/degreereqs.html, but really their curriculum is so well laid out and so complete that I feel like I'm learning most of this stuff for the first time (then again, I didn't go to a particularly good school for physics). Amazon.com's customer reviews have steered me clear of a couple of texts and onto other, more autodidact-friendly texts. I have found that MIT's collection of problems/solutions along with quizzes and exams have been extremely useful. I could go on, but since I'm not even certain this thread will be viewed by anyone, I'll save it for a later follow-up post.
Good luck X-ray and...
Semper Phy!

Mick
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:59 pm

Postby Mick » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:27 pm

Hi x-ray, different situation as you, opposite actually. But I also have a wife and kids, and I'm the sole support. So my goal is to get out asap, and continue to make some dough while I'm working on the ph.d.. So your 4-year prep does sound like a dream.

Here's what I would do in your spot.

Year 1: The math year. Spend nine months working problems in a good engineering text like Kreyszig. Arfkin is too hard except for graduate work. Be able to do all of your differential equations, complex analysis, fourier, etc.. If you aren't up to the Kreyszig level yet, spend a few months just learning or reviewing calculus. After Kryszig, spend some time with Arfkin, for the physicist's favorites of delta functions and some other knick knacks.

Year 2: Spend the entire year working as many simple problems in Serway as possible. There are 46 chapters in the book, so maybe like a chapter a week, with a few weeks as a break. Buy the complete Serway book, old edition is fine, but make sure it has the chapters PAST relativity, so you get the Quantum, Atomic, Molecular, etc. Buy the (black market) instructor's solution manual on ebay or somewhere so you have a reference if you get stuck. Only look in the solutions manual as the last resort. The goal is to learn to solve problems, not solve as many as possible. Don't do the hard problems yet, just the easier ones, you want to build up the foundation.

Year 3: Same as year 2, only this time do all of the hard problems, starting again at the beginning. Serway has thoughtfully marked the easy, intermediate and hard problems.

Year 4: By now, you will easily get a great score on the GRE. Spend this last year doing the advanced stuff. Lagrangians, QM state functions, Schrodinger's eq, statistical mechanics, a little solid state, a lot of Griffith's E&M. Landau's Classical Mechanics, etc.

Year 5: run rings around guys like me that never had the time to do something like this.

bajaking
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:29 am

another late bloomer

Postby bajaking » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:43 pm

X-ray, Quantumnicity, and any other "older" students contemplating a return to grad school in physics: any updates?
I too go through the process almost yearly now of thinking "better do it before it's too late...career could use a boost...I did kick ass in physics undergrad classes and should've seen it through...man, I miss looking at refracted light or boiling water and knowing what the hell is going on".
Then I dust off my old physics exams & texts, take a couple general GRE practice tests, waste slow hours at work cruising university websites...
Then I get distracted by work or other life events.
But this year could be the one!
I also want to know how people who are years out of undergrad (I'm 30 now) deal with the letters of recommendation, weak grades, no research/pubs, etc. I'm pretty sure profs, if they're still alive & teaching, would not remember me or at best give a b.s. letter.
So I'm looking at lower-caliber MS programs with lenient admissions just to get my feet wet. Probably go part time at first. Also looking for programs with an applied emphasis, like photonics, microwaves, etc. Not interested in spending crucial adulthood years in a library playing catchup on string theory with 19-yr-old whiz kids to find myself underemployed with a PhD at 37! I plan to visit a few of the schools in Feb/March and speak with advisors, but would love to hear more details from those who've already done so.
About me: IT middle manager, BS Engineering (one D- short of a BSEE). No wife or kids to distract me yet. Acing the general GREs and feeling confident about a reasonable Physics score after I get through the Princeton Review AP Physics book (seriously--master it and you've got enough for a respectable US citizen score).
Just a new year's eve stream-of-consciousness rant...any constructive responses helpful.

But seriously, any update from X-ray et al?

Relativist
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:58 pm

Postby Relativist » Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:49 am

I agree with cavemanzok's assesment, but I would add an upper division Thermo&Stat-Mech book. So a review/study plan would cover:

1. Lower Division Physics coursework
2. Classical Mechanics - upper division
3. Electricity & Magnetisim - upper division
4. Quantum Mechanics - upper division
5. Thermodynamics & Statistical Mechanics - upper division

I studied some of 2, 3, and 4 before todays exam, but I will be doing more for the November test. I still have to do 1 & 5 which I did none of before this test.




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